Herzog is brand you can trust.
His documentaries are quirky and personal – you are going with him to the south pole or the jungle or he is telling you about a personality conflict he had with an actor.
This is not serious stuff – not on the order of Bus 174, but would you send something as taught as Bus 174 to represent us on another planet?
Jennifer Malkowski
PhD Candidate, UC Berkeley Film Studies: “….its overlap with fiction has been surprisingly benevolent – giving us works that simply and deeply explore individual lives.”
The stuff works for the casual viewer – I guess the fear would be that historians can’t use it down the road
Nietzsche’s admonishment was recognizing an important social order, which was something his fellow intellectuals were not doing when they killed God.
This is what meant by noblesse oblige – they should look to the greater good i.e. be responsible.
A contemporary example is EO Wilson bringing green to religion – something many of his fellow biologists would turn their noses up to doing.
秋刀魚の味 “Who decides what is and isn’t meaningful? “
The culture and culture tells us who we are.
This gets back to bolo ties first parry:
“And Nietzsche is just another guy. Who cares what Nietzsche ….. unerring conscience of thinking types.”
The Western ancients, the renaissance, the enlightenment and a few outliers (Spinoza, Thoreau, Nietzsche) comprise the Western consciousness that we all possess.
Understanding the thinkers of the past helps use understand ourselves – they are where our minds come from.
Most of us, however, as Zizek put it: don’t know what we know.
Anyway, I was just wondering if anyone had a definition for film-art.
An unforeseen problem has arisen:
I haven’t seen any of Andrei Tarkovsky’ films except Solaris
If Andrei Rublev is the greatest film of all time, should a build up to Andrei Rublev?
How would you order these:
Stalker
Andrei Rublev
Steamroller and the Violin
The Sacrifice
Mirror
Anxieties and Imperatives at the Emergence of Autobiographical Documentary
eroding the fragile distinction
Authentic Stasis/Transcendent Movement: The Liminal Space of Motion Comics"
the static and the kinetic, the tactile and the digital, the authentic and the transcendent.
Liminal Plotspaces in Antonioni’s Late Neorealist Films
a crucial thread between these two halves
Terminology at the Margins: A Historical Examination of “Independent Film”
perceived liminality where Hollywood ends and independent film begins is indistinct
“Between Hollywood and Bollywood: Economic and Aesthetic Relationships in the Age of Globalization”
the relationship between these two industries by considering the aesthetic content of their movies
Spectral Monuments: Hitchcock’s Vertigo and San Francisco’s Haunted Spaces of Commemoration."
liminality that is San Francisco’s spectral, cinematic double,
that haunt, subtend, and blur San Francisco’s local borders between the screen and the profilmic, past and present, temporality and spatiality
Zizek: The Reality of the Virtual (2004) Ben Wright
This is an lecture format I only watched the first 20 minute about reality of the virtual and last 5 minutes where he talks about utopia. 2/10
Zizek! (2005) Astra Taylor
This is an irreverent look at Zizek: a great intro to his madness.
8/10
The Shop on Main Street: Academy Award™ for Best Foreign Film in 1965.
75/100
This rating thing is difficult – what are the criteria?
I think this film needs to be seen to capture the totality of Czech cinema, but it wasn’t that effective for me which may have only been because I was distracted worrying about the Red Sox being down 12-1 in the fourth
This site “sucks” because no one can debate something without getting their feelings hurt and either attacking anyone who sees something different from them, or starting threads where their opinion is the only correct one, and every one else is an idiot, or just being “fashionable.”
This site “sucks” because seriousness has become a dirty word, and everyone has to think of film as just a useless hobby, or “pointless,” lest they be constantly hounded to the ends of the earth by people who have never left the sixth grade mentality.
This site “sucks” because nobody can talk about films that don’t conform into their idea of what makes something great.
it’s only “fashionable” to hate Tarantino within the film community
Kinda like Microsoft – people in the computer community hate Windows.
Like QT, Windows works for me, I don’t love it or hate it.
The strong feelings maybe come from the pervasive power-QT is everywhere get over it !
This thread has certainly given some perspective to QT though….
I’m not sure what you meant by ‘serious’.
Spinoza had a hierarchy of thought:
Opinion was the lowest, analysis next and the highest was intuition.
So, serious might be non-opinion. If you go through the thread you see that opinions get flushed out, people supply an analysis (rationale for their opinion) and some get an intuitive sense of QT’s place in the culture.
Once you’re at the intuitive point one can be less emotional/opinionated and the issue should fade…
Looking at some of the criticisms, the comparison could be made:
“his plagiarism, his lack of originality, the fact that he considers himself an auteur…”
Gates is sometimes referred to as a great programmer – he bought DOS – most of MS apps were purchased from others.
Edit: Damien Hirst is the “Bill Gates” in the visual arts
So what’s wrong with that?
Hirst used a hedge fund to finance (10M$) his diamond encrusted skull – supposedly on the market in 2007 for about $100 million.
There is an insight in the Damien Hirst story – you wont like it I’m sure , but it is something to think about.
The below is essentialized to produce the insight. Obviously, he was at the right place at the right time before he had the epiphany and, in the end, it is unlikely that your medium will be money. The take-away is not to look at the situation as artist vs. the suits, but to get on the side of mutual respect and get your project funded.
Hirst did a series of interviews with Charlie Rose.
The last one was where he put his stuff on the table.
Charlie asked a series of questions.
First was: “you produce the first item right?
Hirst said: I have 100 people working for me. (i.e. I don’t touch the stuff.)
Regarding the diamond skull Charlie asked: “why get 10M from a hedge fund; you could have put up the entire 20M?
Hirst looked at Charlie funny.
One might have been thinking: is Hirst an artist?
For that, you need a definition of an artist
My definition, not meant to be definitive, would be: an artist is someone who pushes a medium to its limits.
So the next obvious question is what is a medium ?
The thing Charlie didn’t get was that Hirst’s medium is money and he got the hedge fund involved as a way to push the limits of the medium of money
Hirst is a genius who had an early insight into who in the world are the creative geniuses. The creative geniuses are the gallery owners, the buyers, the producers, the film financiers, the modern-day Medici – the people with money to burn on projects.
He was an unknown when he sold a few works at a Saatchi show. He went back to Saatchi after the show with ideas and asked which they could sell.
That was 1991 – any idea what his net worth is now?
I would guess north of 1B$
If you are an aspiring artist reading this, you are ready to puke, but there is a slight of hand at play. When you approach the geniuses, you have a list of things you want to do – they chose from your list – so you get to do what you want.
An ending, beautiful in its simplicity.
I couldn’t place the tentative camera work in time, but this explains: the grandmother of the French new wave, Varda belonged more precisely to the complementary Rive Gauche movement. Of course, hubby was the redoubtable Jacques Demy (The Umbrellas of Cherbourg).
Lots of technical objections:
neither lead worked for me – they put the female lead in flatter shoes when she met the guy. Harsh lighting – shooting EOD makes a difference even in B&W. Glaring continuity problem in the middle of the intersection
Not enough Michel Legrand music – you recognized him in the film.
Guy she meets pops out of nowhere – symbolic of love. Clichéd, he’s going off to war the next day.
In terms of drifting around the Champs Elysees , nothing will compare to what Malle did with Jeanne Moreau in Elevator to the Gallows – but hey, that was an entirely different film !
This has got to be one of those films that, despite all its faults, will endure 9/10.
Yeah, but he’s not looking for aspiring film makers, he’s looking “For those who have worked as bouncers in sex clubs…”
It is for people who have an affinity for the madness game, sort of like baseball camp for nutters.
The cost? Priceless!
Could it be Werner has found money is the medium or did Bernie ‘made-off ‘with Werner’s money too?
Here’s my tagline contribution:
‘Werner promises to do to you what he did to Klaus ….’
Indeed, he is becoming a brand. von Trier is doing the same thing in a very subtle way, perhaps unintentionally.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance_Party_%28film_series%29
I can't get into Werner Herzog over 3 years ago
Herzog is brand you can trust.
His documentaries are quirky and personal – you are going with him to the south pole or the jungle or he is telling you about a personality conflict he had with an actor.
This is not serious stuff – not on the order of Bus 174, but would you send something as taught as Bus 174 to represent us on another planet?
Go to Comment
Liminality and Cinematic Media over 3 years ago
Jennifer Malkowski
PhD Candidate, UC Berkeley Film Studies: “….its overlap with fiction has been surprisingly benevolent – giving us works that simply and deeply explore individual lives.”
The stuff works for the casual viewer – I guess the fear would be that historians can’t use it down the road
Go to Comment
Your definition of film-art over 3 years ago
Nietzsche’s admonishment was recognizing an important social order, which was something his fellow intellectuals were not doing when they killed God.
This is what meant by noblesse oblige – they should look to the greater good i.e. be responsible.
A contemporary example is EO Wilson bringing green to religion – something many of his fellow biologists would turn their noses up to doing.
秋刀魚の味 “Who decides what is and isn’t meaningful? “
The culture and culture tells us who we are.
This gets back to bolo ties first parry:
“And Nietzsche is just another guy. Who cares what Nietzsche ….. unerring conscience of thinking types.”
The Western ancients, the renaissance, the enlightenment and a few outliers (Spinoza, Thoreau, Nietzsche) comprise the Western consciousness that we all possess.
Understanding the thinkers of the past helps use understand ourselves – they are where our minds come from.
Most of us, however, as Zizek put it: don’t know what we know.
Anyway, I was just wondering if anyone had a definition for film-art.
Go to Comment
Feelings about Andrei Rublev? over 3 years ago
An unforeseen problem has arisen:
I haven’t seen any of Andrei Tarkovsky’ films except Solaris
If Andrei Rublev is the greatest film of all time, should a build up to Andrei Rublev?
How would you order these:
Stalker
Andrei Rublev
Steamroller and the Violin
The Sacrifice
Mirror
Go to Comment
Liminality and Cinematic Media over 3 years ago
Looking for a definition of liminality:
Anxieties and Imperatives at the Emergence of Autobiographical Documentary
eroding the fragile distinction
Authentic Stasis/Transcendent Movement: The Liminal Space of Motion Comics"
the static and the kinetic, the tactile and the digital, the authentic and the transcendent.
Unbound Gender(s): Female Masculinities/Male Feminities
broken boundaries
Liminal Plotspaces in Antonioni’s Late Neorealist Films
a crucial thread between these two halves
Terminology at the Margins: A Historical Examination of “Independent Film”
perceived liminality where Hollywood ends and independent film begins is indistinct
“Between Hollywood and Bollywood: Economic and Aesthetic Relationships in the Age of Globalization”
the relationship between these two industries by considering the aesthetic content of their movies
Spectral Monuments: Hitchcock’s Vertigo and San Francisco’s Haunted Spaces of Commemoration."
liminality that is San Francisco’s spectral, cinematic double,
that haunt, subtend, and blur San Francisco’s local borders between the screen and the profilmic, past and present, temporality and spatiality
Go to Comment
Liminality and Cinematic Media over 3 years ago
dp
Go to Comment
What are the best documentary films ever? over 3 years ago
Volcano: An Inquiry into the Life and Death of Malcolm Lowry
I remember seeing this right after I read the book – is good.
Go to Comment
Last movie you saw and rate it over 3 years ago
Zizek: The Reality of the Virtual (2004) Ben Wright
This is an lecture format I only watched the first 20 minute about reality of the virtual and last 5 minutes where he talks about utopia. 2/10
Zizek! (2005) Astra Taylor
This is an irreverent look at Zizek: a great intro to his madness.
8/10
Go to Comment
Why has it become "fashionable" to hate Tarantino? over 3 years ago
it’s part of the entertainment !
Go to Comment
Last movie you saw and rate it over 3 years ago
The Shop on Main Street: Academy Award™ for Best Foreign Film in 1965.75/100
This rating thing is difficult – what are the criteria?
I think this film needs to be seen to capture the totality of Czech cinema, but it wasn’t that effective for me which may have only been because I was distracted worrying about the Red Sox being down 12-1 in the fourth
closely Watched Trains is next …
Go to Comment
Favorite Movie Soundtracks? over 3 years ago
Pope of Greenwich Village – ha !
Go to Comment
Why has it become "fashionable" to hate Tarantino? over 3 years ago
“With each viewing it loses something..”Is it less because it was entertainment and as entertainment it had a shelf life?
Doesn’t great art get better with each viewing?
I think of QT’s work as I do “peelers”
From a distance she looks great, especially if you are drunk, but up close and sober?
Go to Comment
Your definition of film-art over 3 years ago
秋刀魚の味 said about 16 hours ago:This site “sucks” because no one can debate something without getting their feelings hurt and either attacking anyone who sees something different from them, or starting threads where their opinion is the only correct one, and every one else is an idiot, or just being “fashionable.”
This site “sucks” because seriousness has become a dirty word, and everyone has to think of film as just a useless hobby, or “pointless,” lest they be constantly hounded to the ends of the earth by people who have never left the sixth grade mentality.
This site “sucks” because nobody can talk about films that don’t conform into their idea of what makes something great.
Go to Comment
Your definition of film-art over 3 years ago
dp
Go to Comment
What are Your Thoughts on Louis Malle? over 3 years ago
God’s Country: watch at the end and remind yourself – that was1986 – so prophetic I get the chills just thinking about it
Go to Comment
Why has it become "fashionable" to hate Tarantino? over 3 years ago
it’s only “fashionable” to hate Tarantino within the film community
Kinda like Microsoft – people in the computer community hate Windows.
Like QT, Windows works for me, I don’t love it or hate it.
The strong feelings maybe come from the pervasive power-QT is everywhere get over it !
This thread has certainly given some perspective to QT though….
Go to Comment
Your definition of film-art over 3 years ago
I’m not sure what you meant by ‘serious’.
Spinoza had a hierarchy of thought:
Opinion was the lowest, analysis next and the highest was intuition.
So, serious might be non-opinion. If you go through the thread you see that opinions get flushed out, people supply an analysis (rationale for their opinion) and some get an intuitive sense of QT’s place in the culture.
Once you’re at the intuitive point one can be less emotional/opinionated and the issue should fade…
Go to Comment
IF WE IGNORE 81/2 AND DOLCE VITA, WHAT'D BE THE BEST FELLINI MOVIE? over 3 years ago
Put me down for La Strada – I can still feel the end of that movie now, even though I haven’t seen it for years.
It was started when I Vitelloni was finishing – I Vitelloni was the beginning of a turning point – La Strada was the completed turn for Fellini
Go to Comment
Why has it become "fashionable" to hate Tarantino? over 3 years ago
Josh
Looking at some of the criticisms, the comparison could be made:
“his plagiarism, his lack of originality, the fact that he considers himself an auteur…”
Gates is sometimes referred to as a great programmer – he bought DOS – most of MS apps were purchased from others.
Edit: Damien Hirst is the “Bill Gates” in the visual arts
Go to Comment
Your definition of film-art over 3 years ago
Okay, without getting into semantics, generally speaking, some people aren’t serious.
Mike’s comment made me laugh, so I can appreciate some of the irreverence here !
Go to Comment
Why has it become "fashionable" to hate Tarantino? over 3 years ago
So what’s wrong with that?
Hirst used a hedge fund to finance (10M$) his diamond encrusted skull – supposedly on the market in 2007 for about $100 million.
Go to Comment
Why has it become "fashionable" to hate Tarantino? over 3 years ago
Indifference is QT’s greatest fear…..
Go to Comment
Anyone going to film/art school over 3 years ago
Regarding QT’s involvement with financiers:
There is an insight in the Damien Hirst story – you wont like it I’m sure , but it is something to think about.
The below is essentialized to produce the insight. Obviously, he was at the right place at the right time before he had the epiphany and, in the end, it is unlikely that your medium will be money. The take-away is not to look at the situation as artist vs. the suits, but to get on the side of mutual respect and get your project funded.
Hirst did a series of interviews with Charlie Rose.
The last one was where he put his stuff on the table.
Charlie asked a series of questions.
First was: “you produce the first item right?
Hirst said: I have 100 people working for me. (i.e. I don’t touch the stuff.)
Regarding the diamond skull Charlie asked: “why get 10M from a hedge fund; you could have put up the entire 20M?
Hirst looked at Charlie funny.
One might have been thinking: is Hirst an artist?
For that, you need a definition of an artist
My definition, not meant to be definitive, would be: an artist is someone who pushes a medium to its limits.
So the next obvious question is what is a medium ?
The thing Charlie didn’t get was that Hirst’s medium is money and he got the hedge fund involved as a way to push the limits of the medium of money
Hirst is a genius who had an early insight into who in the world are the creative geniuses. The creative geniuses are the gallery owners, the buyers, the producers, the film financiers, the modern-day Medici – the people with money to burn on projects.
He was an unknown when he sold a few works at a Saatchi show. He went back to Saatchi after the show with ideas and asked which they could sell.
That was 1991 – any idea what his net worth is now?
I would guess north of 1B$
If you are an aspiring artist reading this, you are ready to puke, but there is a slight of hand at play. When you approach the geniuses, you have a list of things you want to do – they chose from your list – so you get to do what you want.
Go to Comment
what did you watch today? over 3 years ago
Cleo from 5 to 7 (1961) Agnes Varda
An ending, beautiful in its simplicity.
I couldn’t place the tentative camera work in time, but this explains: the grandmother of the French new wave, Varda belonged more precisely to the complementary Rive Gauche movement. Of course, hubby was the redoubtable Jacques Demy (The Umbrellas of Cherbourg).
Lots of technical objections:
neither lead worked for me – they put the female lead in flatter shoes when she met the guy. Harsh lighting – shooting EOD makes a difference even in B&W. Glaring continuity problem in the middle of the intersection
Not enough Michel Legrand music – you recognized him in the film.
Guy she meets pops out of nowhere – symbolic of love. Clichéd, he’s going off to war the next day.
In terms of drifting around the Champs Elysees , nothing will compare to what Malle did with Jeanne Moreau in Elevator to the Gallows – but hey, that was an entirely different film !
This has got to be one of those films that, despite all its faults, will endure 9/10.
Go to Comment
Werner Herzog's Rogue Film School over 3 years ago
Yeah, but he’s not looking for aspiring film makers, he’s looking “For those who have worked as bouncers in sex clubs…”
It is for people who have an affinity for the madness game, sort of like baseball camp for nutters.
The cost? Priceless!
Could it be Werner has found money is the medium or did Bernie ‘made-off ‘with Werner’s money too?
Here’s my tagline contribution:
‘Werner promises to do to you what he did to Klaus ….’
…..thanks for the link
Go to Comment
Werner Herzog's Rogue Film School over 3 years ago
///Plot your demise in a Peruvian jungle?\\\
…make one homicidal
The Herzog brand: somewhat Hemingway-esque, in fact Hemingway is on the reading list
Can a clothing line be far off?
This sadly whorey attempt at self-parody is difficult to understand.
Go to Comment
Why has it become "fashionable" to hate Tarantino? over 3 years ago
////self promote and make himself the topic\\\
Indeed, he is becoming a brand. von Trier is doing the same thing in a very subtle way, perhaps unintentionally.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance_Party_%28film_series%29
So apparently is Herzog becoming a brand
Go to Comment
Why has it become "fashionable" to hate Tarantino? over 3 years ago
“Duchamp didn’t “see” beauty in a urinal. "
Actually it had nothing to do with beauty – it was a comment on how art had moved from the sensorium to the cerebral..
Go to Comment
Favorite Books over 3 years ago
Beauty and Visual Thinking
Go to Comment
Why has it become "fashionable" to hate Tarantino? over 3 years ago
I can’t believe this fell off the top of the list, but in a case of perfect symmetry or syncopation, it is right next to the other QT thread !
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