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Can Independent Film Actually Make You A Living? 11 months ago

No I’m saying for me there is literally no difference. I might actually feel better at the desk job.

That might sound pretentious but I honestly would not want to do anything Altman, Lumet, Clooney, or Abrams did. I have no interest in that world and to me, being in charge (as a director) of anything creative and having someone tell me what I can or can’t do is impossible. I can’t do it at all. With a desk job I’d expect it though.

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Can Independent Film Actually Make You A Living? 11 months ago

Blue, there are no wrong questions. If I’m curious, I ask questions. I still feel like you’re viewing this whole thread in the wrong light, it’s rather harmless. I never said I’m looking to be loadsamoney and I’ve already read Ray Carney’s mailbag so I don’t need any more quotes lifted from that.

I’m well aware of the risks of filmmaking, but I’d also like to point out that Jon Jost sells DVDs of his films directly from his website. And he very sharply points out that his films, when they were released, made him zero dollars. And they probably don’t make him much now.

The point of this thread is not to hesitate and say “Well maybe I won’t be a filmmaker”. The point is that there is no reason to celebrate poverty. If you look at independent MUSIC nowadays, sure most of those bands and artists struggle too. But there seems to be a much bigger culture there where independent artists get support, both monetarily (even if it’s not a lot) and in the social sense. Mainstream music is obviously the way to get rich, but independent musicians can now distribute their work directly and build a fanbase and actually survive a bit easier thanks to the internet.

In other words, someone like Jost should be making money from selling and screening his DVDs and films. He’s earned it. And I’m sure he’d agree he’s earned it. If Cassavaetes was alive today he’d be doing the same thing.

It has nothing to do with cashing in, it has to do with focusing on just making your art so that’s all you have to worry about. Of course, that’s every artist’s dream and it’s always the minority of artists that achieve such a luxury.

But for independent filmmakers the support or “Scene” seems to be a lot worse than other arts. Maybe I’m wrong.

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Can Independent Film Actually Make You A Living? 11 months ago

@ Captain

That’s interesting to hear. I don’t know much about that scene so that’s essentially why I started the thread. It seems that they can at least build a fanbase better so that people can actually follow their work.

I still feel a bit of hope about the future of artist distribution but I’m sure it’s naive.

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Can Independent Film Actually Make You A Living? 11 months ago

Gondo, thanks for that.

Benning has hit the nail on the head, exactly what I’m trying to say. “Artist filmmakers don’t fit into the industrial film world, but then they are ignored by the art world as well.”

This is why I started the thread. It goes beyond “making money” and it really just has to do with support. I feel like independent filmmakers need a better support system, and I think that’s already start to happen with things like No Budge, Remodernism and even Mubi.

We also need a better concept for touring independent films….

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Can Independent Film Actually Make You A Living? 11 months ago

@ Gondo

Yeah but if you keep reading Benning’s interview, he also seems pretty disappointed. And Cassavetes’ quote was simply pointing out the very likely reality of the situation. But it doesn’t mean it can’t ever change.

@ Torres

If I was making dentist money I’d be confused. Those guys are rich.

To reiterate, this thread isn’t about a get rich quick scheme. I’m simply wondering why, compared to every other artform (except maybe literal poets) filmmakers kind of get the shaft. You can be a celebrated independent filmmaker, people will want to see more of your work, yet you could also be homeless and dying in a gutter. I feel like that’s something that needs to change.

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Cleaners (2011) Review 11 months ago

I haven’t heard of you Douglas, but after this thread I took a quick peek at SNAKE in the Garage. I’m struck by the scene where he’s talking on the phone and you hold on the spinning fan, and also by the framing of the shot where he is entering the room in the hallway (you have his top half cut off). Also interesting breaks in the sound.

I’m eventually going to sit down and watch it proper but just from what I glimpsed I have to say I immediately “get” your aesthetic and it shares a lot with the aesthetic I’m working on. I also like that everything is lo-fi. I can’t imagine anyone on imdb or most people in general would like these kinds of films, so you should take any overwhelming negativity with a grain of salt.

I’ll save my final thoughts for when I actually view it, but I already have to give you enormous credit for shooting something a bit different looking.

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Can Independent Film Actually Make You A Living? 11 months ago

" I’ve always made my money by writing or consulting on films for producers or directors. Also not great money but it has taken me to some very distant corners of the world into cultures and with people I would never have worked with or met, otherwise. "

Very interesting. I’m not actually looking for “great money”. I’m just looking for ways to use my creative talents to not-starve. Writing and creative consulting has always been something I’ve actually enjoyed doing, I just haven’t had a lot of practice with it. Can you tell me what led you to those positions? Was it the awards and notoriety from places like Cannes and whatnot? Or did you start with writing internships, etc?

“And frankly, I don’t buy what seems to be an excuse for some, that is the “artist” card. Today it is less expensive than ever to actually make a film, cut it and have it ready to be seen on DVD. Pennies compared to what it used to be and the same holds for distribution. If you don’t get picked up, there is always the option of self-distribution, which if you are willing to focus on it (it takes time and a lot of work that won’t be spent writing or directing your next project) you can find ways to make some money. "

I agree- while I would never compromise myself artistically to simply make more money, I see no reason why NO ONE should see or buy my films once I make them. I’m very interested in new distribution methods and making films very cheaply (which in movie terms is still costly).

“Problem is, are you willing to wear that hat?”

I’m certainly willing to wear that hat, though it’s one of my weakest hats. The thing I think when you start talking about distribution or making money off of your art, people take it the wrong way and think you are merely trying to make money and that’s it.

I’ve been thinking a lot about how to market the things I’ll make. I know my movies will be very unpopular one way or the other, but I’d really like as many people to see it as possible. I feel like shotgunning every social network isn’t the best game plan anymore.

Even IF my films never make me money, if it can land me a job in a related creative endeavor (as it has for you, Thomas) then I would be happy. As long as I can make the films I want and NOT starve to death, I’ll be good.

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Can Independent Film Actually Make You A Living? 11 months ago

I seriously hope you meant “5 year deal”

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Can Independent Film Actually Make You A Living? 11 months ago

Wow, 50 years? That’s beyond insane.

Kudos to him for sticking to his guns, whether he made any money or not, that’s an absolutely ridiculous deal and is part of the reason why I’m hoping for self-distribution and self-screenings to become more popular among consumers.

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Films and Filmmakers With a New Filmmaking Language in the 21st Century 11 months ago

I just saw that this thread exists and I’m about to sleep so it’s probably not the best time for me to chime in. But so far I’m getting a lot of good recommendations here. I had no clue about many if not most of these directors. I read up on Oxhide and it’s just exactly the type of thing that makes me most excited.

It seems like Asia in general is embracing the low budget filmmaking I’m talking about- grab a video camera and make a piece of work. Use your family. Why not? Why not make portraits of people you love or know? Other arts do it.

Why not make first person films? Why does sound have to be synchronous? Why can’t you make a film about peoples’ legs? Etc.

I’d ramble on more but I’m losing my thoughts.

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Can Independent Film Actually Make You A Living? 11 months ago

Polaris, I’m glad you find it important.

I’ve been thinking a lot about the concept of “film gigging” to build an audience (much the way musicians do). There’s a thread about it somewhere on here I think, and if not you can google the term.

I think stuff like that is just as important, if not more, than viral stuff online. I think if there is a tangible element or an event to attend, people will pay more attention. You may even lose money film gigging, but I feel like you’d build a bigger fan club.

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FILMAKERS WITH THE BIGGEST EGO 11 months ago

Yasujiro Ozu

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Filmmakers with tiny egos 11 months ago

I named Ozu in that other thread as a joke. For all he did and how controlling and exacting his method was, he seemed fairly humble (as did his films).

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Film is a collaborative medium 11 months ago

I have heard this phrase countless times in my life. I am wondering what you think of this phrase. Simply state your opinion or how it makes you feel.

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Jumpcut Cafe 11 months ago

Oh wow

I always wished there was a neat little place near me like this or the La Jetee bar in Tokyo.

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Andrei Rublev Remake 11 months ago

Glad somebody else noticed the Jeff Bridges thing too.

Through the whole movie I kept thinking JEFF BRIDGES AND VIGGO MORTENSON

Also the actor who played the twin princes reminds me a lot of Tarkovsky himself.

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If You Left Here, Who Would You Come Back As 11 months ago

I already did this and I just came back as my real name

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Rest in Peace Chris Marker 11 months ago

This one hurts a lot. I can’t think of a living filmmaker that meant more to me. There’s no words really.

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Sans Soleil 11 months ago

Just based on this film alone, Chris Marker became one of my favorite filmmakers of all time. The film is in another class of its own. I’ve been thinking about it the past few days and literally have it at the top of my netflix queue. It’s of course strange timing for all this since Marker’s death has occurred just around the same time.

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Movies You've Seen a Million Times or Movies You Never Tire of Watching 11 months ago

I have to add Sans Soleil, it’s literally the only film I never get sick of. It’s always such a friendly experience.

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Rest in Peace Chris Marker 11 months ago

As a small tribute (?) I’ve done a tiny bit of work and extracted the ending theme for Sans Soleil (the Moussourgsky song redone electronically by Tomita)

The first link includes the ending speech by Alexandra Stewart:

http://db.tt/YI7aN53l

The second is JUST the song:

http://db.tt/PCmvnfi1

I put them in .mp3 format so you can play them on pretty much all devices with ease. Enjoy.

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FILMMAKERS WITH ALTER EGOS 11 months ago

I wish more directors would use pen names/alter egos.

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Rest in Peace Chris Marker 11 months ago

I don’t want to dwell too much on the mystery surrounding Chris Marker the person. As he once said “My films are enough”.

However, I was really struck by his death- even at age 91- precisely BECAUSE unlike other directors, I had no interviews or biographies or personal stories to fall back on. Marker the man is essentially still a mystery- “he lives on through his work”, as they say of most dead artists- but this time it really feels true. Watching pieces by Marker now feels like I’m communicating with an electronic ghost- a disembodied memory.

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I realized why I’ve been feeling so down- because I felt so oddly close to Marker through his films. Like I said, since I had nothing else to fall back on, I only knew him through his films. And in pieces like Sans Soleil where a narrator is present, you feel like he is talking to your personally through his work. And every time you watch the film, it feels fresh- it feels like a new conversation. I was actually thinking about this days before his death- why Sans Soleil seemed so special to me- and I suppose that’s why his death struck me so hard. Not that I’ve been crying, but it’s really left a hole. I always took comfort in thinking “Whatever is going on in the world right now, somewhere…Chris Marker is filming or editing something”. It was weirdly comforting to know Marker was still alive with all of his faculties, even if his output wasn’t huge in recent times. As someone on here mentioned, you felt like he would live forever….

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The enigma of Chris Marker to most of his fans left them with Chris Marker the “persona”. Chris sort of became exactly what he wanted to be- an avatar. And if you read some of his interviews, it almost seems like this is how he planned it. In one of his interviews he mentions the novel “The Invention of Morel” and how that novel could sum up what he had attempted in his work. I had never read or heard of it, but reading up on it on Wikipedia, you get chills down your spine when you realize what he meant.

Chris had an avatar in “Second Life” as most of you probably know. If you don’t know what Second Life is, it’s a place similar to Active Worlds where you have an avatar (like in a video game) and you can go around building houses and chat to other people floating around the world. A virtual reality.

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I had never bothered to visit Chris Marker’s virtual home until his death. I signed up for Second Life a couple of days ago (it’s free) to float around his place and it’s very eerie. You see all the artifacts, all the little Guillaume statues and little Marker touches. It’s especially lonely since there’s rarely anyone there, but from what people have told me, Second Life will be deleting it soon (since Chris isn’t alive to pay for it anymore).

Walking around this virtual world may sound a bit silly, but in the context of someone like Chris Marker, it’s like floating around a dream that continues after the dreamer is dead…much like his films, just being in this place gives me such a lonely and strange feeling.

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During his interview in Second Life a few years back, Chris mentioned that he thought it would be great if you could basically insert your “memories” into your Second Life avatar, so that even when you logged out of the system, your avatar would still float around talking to people…like a ghost. So you’d never know if you were talking to the actual person or just a memory of them. He even mentioned that even when people died in real life, they could live on through their memories in Second Life. Like in Tarkovsky’s Solaris, but with an even blurrier line.

Sadly, this never came to fruition obviously, and the place is abandoned now with maybe 1 or 2 visitors MAX at any given time. I really just wrote started this post as a “Hey, have you guys visited that Second Life thing Chris Marker did?” But just being in something as seemingly frivolous as a virtual reality home created for/by Marker evokes the strangest feelings. If you haven’t visited it at least once, I’d recommend you take the time to experience all the little nooks and crannies before it disappears.

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Navigating Structure in Temporal Artworks 11 months ago

I always thought it’d be neat to “perform” a film live by remixing it on the fly, cutting back and forth between channels (or NOT cutting?) etc much like a DJ or electronic musician performs his work. I think Peter Greenaway had this idea a few years ago and it’s probably been done a number of times in some capacity. We certainly have the technology…

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Navigating Structure in Temporal Artworks 11 months ago

As I said, all of this is interesting to me. I still like the idea of “tradiotional” cinema as a piece of work viewed by an audience from start to finish. To me (and pretty much everyone else) cinema has to do with time and memory so playing the same film over and over seems like part of the art’s charm.

But a live performance “Remix” type of thing where a director remixes or sort of builds upon their original idea and turns it into something else… (sort of like a live version of 2046?)

In any case, call me old fashioned, but “audience’s choice” is a phrase I tend to run away from. I’d never let an audience choose anything, especially on the fly.

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Rest in Peace Chris Marker 11 months ago

I missed this great little interview Agnes Varda did with Chris a few months back:

It’s really amazing to see his studio and to know it was 10x more disorganized then where I edit.

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Films You Fell Asleep During 11 months ago

The Silence for the first viewing. I was actually very tired but also bored to tears.

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Films You Fell Asleep During 11 months ago

Mubi really needs to get a “delete post” option

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Chris Marker’s appreciation thread 11 months ago

I knew about Gorgomancy but didn’t know about the other two links, thanks so much Chasing Butterflies.

I feel like we still have not seen all of the secrets Chris left in store for us. I would not be surprised if he had films that he planned to only be released after his death. If there was ever an artist that truly felt “immortal” it’s him. It still feels like he isn’t really gone…

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