This topic is part of the 2012 MUBI World Cup. If you have not already done so, please read the first post at the topic for an introduction to and rules about this year’s World Cup:
The purpose of this topic is to cast votes in the matchup listed above and also to be a forum for discussing the films in the match.
Anyone who has seen both of the films listed above may vote in this match. You must vote for whichever of the two films you personally like better. In order to vote you must post a reply to this topic containing one of the following sequences:
If you are voting for Good Riddance: “Canada (Good Riddance) 1 – Sweden (Saraband) 0”
If you are voting for Saraband: “Canada (Good Riddance) 0 – Sweden (Saraband) 1”
Your vote must contain the names of both films with a “one” after the film you are voting for and a “zero” after the other film. If your vote is not formatted in this way it will not be counted.
Along with your vote you are strongly encouraged to leave additional comments regarding your reactions to the films, your reasons for why you voted the way you did, and responses to other participants’ comments. Being able to have deep discussion about the films and different aspects of them is an important part of finding enjoyment in participating in the World Cup.
This match will end on Saturday, June 2 at 10:30 PM GMT. No votes attempted to be cast after that time will be counted. Shortly after the match ends the votes will be tallied and a winner of the match will be declared. If the films both receive the same number of votes, the match will be considered a tie.
The percentage of votes each film receives in a match will have an effect on whether or not the corresponding country will participate in the final round of the World Cup. Thus even if the film you vote for loses in this match, your vote will still be important.
The results of the matches as well as the schedule for future matches can be found here:
If you would like to participate but are unable to find sources to watch these films, please send me a personal message so that I can invite you to the private website featuring internet links to view the films.
I’ve found myself with only a couple of hours of even remotely free time a day and I just haven’t been able to commit that time to the cup. I really, really regret it, because there have been so many films and match-ups that have looked and sounded fascinating to me.
Anyway, that’s no excuse, but I say it to preface my ashamed confession that I haven’t seen Saraband, even though I did manage to track it down. I’ll regret it even more if the match gets only a scant handful of votes and my vote might have swung it in the Canadians’ direction. I’ve grown pretty patriotic lately.
And despite the dwindling turn-out, I still think this is an incredibly worthwhile event and just want to thank you again for keeping it going, Riss. I guess making these things successful isn’t an exact science and there are just certain factors this year that have drained away some of the members that are usually most passionate about them. It’s still deeply gratifying to see a hidden master like Mankiewicz going head-to-head with an arthouse titan like Bergman (hopefully he has as much luck as Ruiz did two years ago!).
Canada (Good Riddance) – 1 / Sweden (Saraband) – 0
have never heard of Mankiewicz and was very happy to check out more Quebecois cinema. a very interesting match here. both of these films are outstanding. What I love about a film like Good Riddance is the dynamic between all the characters, how their flaws all interact with each other. i love what the young actress, Charlotte Laurier who plays Manon, has done here. very brave young girl and i don’t believe i’ve seen a film with someone as young play such a complex and emotionally troubled character so well. she lives essentially without the guidance of any kind of parental figure, her ideas lie within the books she reads. the way she speaks is as if it’s written prose unlike the rest of the characters. excellently shot by Michel Brault by the way
i’m quite a big admirer of the films of Bergman and I really like Saraband. to me, this is not so much a followup to Scenes From a Marriage, but more like an afterward. the big difference between the two is how the films are presented stylistically. Scenes is shot in a great verite style, very up close and uncomfortable very unlike what Saraband is. but here you can see how what Bergman has been doing since his departure from the cinema has influenced on larger works. he’s adapted a more theatrical styling since that’s what he had been doing, along with television work, at the time. the work here by Ullman and Josephson is great, I can still feel that connection they had in Scenes. but here is another impressive perfomance by a young actress, not quite as young but whatever, by Dufvenius.
Thanks Malkin. We’ve always had dwindling turnouts in the past. Sometimes it tends to pick up again, so hopefully we’ll get some surges again. Regardless I’ll keep trucking along and making the films available and hopefully whoever participates can get some enjoyment out of it, even if some particular matches are lacking in conversation. I’m in the same boat with little free time and overwhelmed by how much I have to do which usually makes me just shut down, but I’m trying to grow in this area.
Canada (Good Riddance) 0 – Sweden (Saraband) 1
I’m disappointed that a Bergman film was chosen from Sweden, and that if it was going to be a Bergman, that it was this one. That said, I do prefer it to Scenes from a Marriage. Overall, I’m no more excited by Saraband than by Good Riddance, but I do like Bach more than Mozart, so Saraband gets the nod.
Two good films, both about young daughters trapped in an untenable situation and their ways of coping.
Just had a chance to finally see Saraband so that I could vote in this match. Although it is a coda to Bergman’s Scenes from a Marriage, it seemed more like an early Bergman film. We have the father/son conflict, the pointed reference to Kierkegaard, the Bach on an organ in church, the idealized mother figure just seen in her picture, the attempted suicide – the angst, always the angst. Not to say I didn’t enjoy it, but it seemed more a rehash than a re-invention of the two important characters of Marianne (Liv Ullmann) and Johan (the recently late and great Erland Josephson – so sad he is now gone!).
Marianne goes back after some 30 years or more to see her ex-husband, and she never knows why. At first, he seems a bit distant, but soon Marianne is immersed in the turmoil between father and son and the son’s obsessive relationship with his daughter. All of this echoing Bergman themes from the past – it was like, now where have I seen that scene? One poignant moment for me was when the son (well-played by Borje Ahlstedt) relates how he has dreamed of seeing his late wife coming through a gate, then realizing he is also dead. This repeats a scene in the documentary Bergman Island, where Bergman relates the same dream about his deceased wife Ingrid. A touching autobiographical element in what seemed as a retread of ancient Bergman territory.
I have put my comments re Good Riddance on the intro thread by Malkin. I thought the girl playing the daughter was great! Both films had an element of melodrama (esp. at the end), but I’m voting for the fresh summer breeze of the French-Canadian film over the cold Nordic wind of the Bergman. Glad I’ve seen both films. Thanks for the submissions.
Canada (Good Riddance) 1 – Sweden (Saraband) 0
I’m not fond of any of them but just for curiosity: In Spain, Saraband was one of the two more critically acclaimed movies of the year (Mystic River was the other one) whereas Good Ridance was never released and remains unknown (not even Spanish fansubs). The big names rule.
Canada (Good Riddance) 1 — Sweden (Saraband) 0
I’ll write more later, just wanted to get my vote in. Seems like I lost my mind voting against a Bergman film, but I’ve always believed that Les Bons Débarras (Good Riddance) is a masterful movie. It’s plunge into invisibility has always been a mystery to me. It won many awards on its release, was nominated for an Academy Award for best foreign film, has perennially been a critical favorite on Canada’s best lists and was restored by the Toronto International Film Festival a few years back. That being said, I haven’t been able to find a subtitled dvd or vhs for many years of looking. It is very well regarded and championed by the Québecois with pride. More later. How will I explain voting against Saraband? Hmmm.
These two films are opposites in so many ways, but the most relevant opposition is this. Good Riddance is a masterpiece made by a mediocre director (Mankiewicz mainly worked in television before and after this), while Saraband is a mediocre film made by a master director. Either way, Saraband simply can’t compete.
Just a note, this one is ending a half hour later than normal because it got started a bit late. Yes, get a little anal retentive.
VOTING IS CLOSED
Canada (Good Riddance) – 5
Sweden (Saraband) – 1
The winner is:
From Sea to Sea!!
Our home and native land!
True patriot love in all thy sons command.
With glowing hearts we see thee rise,
The True North strong and free!
From far and wide,
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
God keep our land glorious and free!
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
Thanks Apursansar and Malkin for submitting and providing Les Bons Débarras. It is an important film created by an extremely talented team (director,Mankiewicz; writer, Réjean Ducharme; Director of Photography, Michel Brault; and the exceptional cast, most importantly Charlotte Laurier and Marie Tifo). If only it could resurface from the popular limbo of forgotten films.