Iran (Leila) 1 – New Zealand (In My Father’s Den) 0
Thank God Iran won this match. It was almost a sense of deja-vu for me.
A few words in appreciation of the other film, Meg?…or are we to assume that Leila’s follies were too pronounced for it to deserve a vote.
assume what you like Rohit, you seem to hate anyone disagreeing with your votes and i don’t have the energy to be stuffed engaging
I am sorry but you are wrong. I have a problem with the nature of votes cast. There is a fundamental difference between casting a vote for a film and casting a vote against a film. The latter is negative and unhealthy in spirit and I will always express my views against it. Your vote is even more bewildering because you seem to have more good things to say about the film that you vote against than its opponent. What kind of voting is this? Please explain it to me because I cannot figure out the rationale behind it. I admit I am stupid because you clearly are not.
Well I think that’s a malleable thing…my comments in the Araya match eg were mostly about why I did not like Araya which you had no problem with because you agreed. You got really angry about the Beekeeper match because people were voting for the Russian r&r thing so I think you do seem to take it personally when people arn’t playing the game as you see fit about voting, and also how they express themselves. FWIW I enjoyed Father’s Den more but sometimes a vote can be going against the tide and one feels compelled to give a rationale for not having fallen in love.
Sometimes, also, voting decisions are difficult,and there will be the circumstance of feeling more you are voting against one more than for the other. I think it was that way for me in the Araya / Irish match and have heard others express finding themselves in that position when neither have been much chop.
Well I think that’s a malleable thing…my comments in the Araya match eg were mostly about why I did not like Araya which you had no problem with because you agreed.
You had things to say about Araya as well as its opponent in that match and moreover it was a case of not liking both films much for you. I don’t think that’s the case here, or is it?
You got really angry about the Beekeeper match because people were voting for the Russian r&r thing so I think you do seem to take it personally when people arn’t playing the game as you see fit about voting, and also how they express themselves.
How do you explain my reaction in this match then? By your reasoning, I shouldn’t bother since most votes went for Leila.
I am more conscious of comments and votes on matches that have films that I feel are of high quality and deserving of votes. I feel that’s pretty much the case for most people.
I think the first time Apursansar voted in the cup, but it was after the match ended! Oh well, thanks anyway. ;)
Sorry about flaking out and forgetting to end the cup. Thanks for ending it for me. I’m very glad to see that we had enough discussion to get to a second page for the first time in a while though. :)
I’m pleased this film won, and even more pleased that people enjoyed it. I’ve also very much enjoyed your comments on it.
Man, I miss the Cup. Next year!
“I feel that’s pretty much the case for most people.”
Most people manage to express their preferences and comments in the cup without getting personal and irrational. If you want to say anything else about this please say it here and resist writing this sort of overwrought bullshit on my wall.
“I am sorry to say but that’s a terribly vindictive vote you have cast against Leila. I can’t imagine anyone voting against a film just because they didn’t like the ending. I say “against” simply because I am sure the opponent in this match is nowhere near the cinematic quality of Leila."
WTF? The ending was not the only reason, as I explained in my initial post but it did sway me away in the final reel. Is there something wrong with you that you take this stuff so personally? This was the same crap you went on with over Beekeeper, trying to shame me into giving an account of myself as to how I dared enjoy its opponent more. For someone who bleats a lot about injustice you come across as a controlling bully. Charity starts at home, no?
Congratulations Rohit, I don’t think anyone has so arrogantly and selfishly tried to embarrass another voter for their opinion since you last were here. If people are calling you a bully, you might try to digest that statement. Speak about the film, not the people who don’t agree with you in the Cup match. Time to go to your corner and think about this like a good little self-infatuated soldier.
Okay, let’s all play nice. Last thing we need here is me having to moderate someone I respect cause they’re fighting with someone else I respect. Please, y’all.
Haha…and I thought people were missing me on the cup. Call me whatever : arrogant, selfish, bully, bullshit, self-infatuated…. That won’t stop me expressing my views against senseless negative votes against well deserving films. Yes, you can call me shameless as well.
@Rohit—I did miss you on the cup. You’re very talented at expressing your original insights into films, and your passion for same. You just seem to imagine a red cape being flung in your face if someone doesn’t agree with you. In this particular match you had to verbally reprimand someone because you didn’t like their reason for voting—not their vote, but their reason for that vote, it was negative (against) when it should have been positive (for) or something like that. It wasn’t commensurate with your personal belief of what a good reason should be. I personally think you should become a moderator. I take back “selfish,” “self-infatuated” and “soldier.” I was wrong. “bully” still stands, though I borrowed it. “Bullshit” must have come from somewhere else. Maybe we should stop arguing on this site and go onto the next match, where I’ve got a feeling we’ll disagree and have plenty of time to throw mud. Just don’t get House of Leaves angry, I hate when he does that moderatin’.
You added: “That won’t stop me expressing my views against senseless negative votes against well deserving films.”
I take it you’d be fine if someone raised “sensible negative votes against well-deserving films”. The problem is that you are the only person allowed to define the terms “senseless or sensible” as well as what’s “well-deserving” or not. It gets so confusing dealing with strong willed opinions and it can easily arouse animosity from others who don’t share your opinions or your way of instructing them on the right and wrong ways to think—especially when you demean them or show very little respect. Should everyone have voted for Leila? I mean Meg was the only person in the entire match who voted against your vote. Is someone who votes for the New Zealand film a dummy because it’s not a “well-deserving” film? Says who? Let me guess.
_"I guess people from the liberal western society have a difficulty in understanding the social tensions faced by Leila in this film."
Rohit, I hate to burst your bubble, but most of the votes for Leila came from “people in the liberal western societies.” Your belief that the film buffs in the Mubi Cup who live in the West are unable to understand a rather universal tale of marital betrayal and loss of faith in one’s wife or husband in Iranian Moslem culture doesn’t hold water in this case. Your a smart guy, but perhaps you need an editor to fact-check. Also, I’ve peaked ahead at the next match and noticed that the Welsh film has garnered your vote and other people living in the East, however Westerners are the only ones voting for the Japanese film, which I hope to God you don’t consider “un—deserving.” Should someone say that people living in your region have difficulty understanding the social tensions faced by the boy in the Japanese entry, and that’s why you didn’t vote for it? Your logic about the “liberal west” is a personal logic, merely an opinion striving to be a fact. But your proofs always go back to personal attacks, not logic at all. Let’s give everyone the same respect we demand, eh?
Should everyone have voted for Leila? I mean Meg was the only person in the entire match who voted against your vote. Is someone who votes for the New Zealand film a dummy because it’s not a “well-deserving” film? Says who? Let me guess.
All I wanted from Meg were a few words of appreciation for the film from NZ. Is that too much to ask for, considering that she was the only person who had cast a vote in its favor?
I take it you’d be fine if someone raised “sensible negative votes against well-deserving films”.
I am principally against negative votes but I agree that it can be unavoidable sometimes. A negative vote can be sensible if someone doesn’t like both the films in a match. In that case you are left with no choice(other than refraining) but to cast a negative vote. I even asked Meg if she disliked both the films for which I got no answer.
Your belief that the film buffs in the Mubi Cup who live in the West are unable to understand a rather universal tale of marital betrayal and loss of faith in one’s wife or husband in Iranian Moslem culture doesn’t hold water in this case.
^It was merely a conjecture to ascertain the problem behind the negative vote. I am happy that everyone understands Leila’s social problem’s. I personally am not smart enough to understand every social issue depicted in a foreign film and I feel no disrespect to learn it from someone who comes from a similar culture.
But your proofs always go back to personal attacks, not logic at all. Let’s give everyone the same respect we demand, eh?
I haven’t made a single personal attack against anyone on this thread. I only attack the rationale which is the job of every critic. In this thread I was simply trying to understand the rationale. Even when I am doing that I am being respectful to the person or else I wouldn’t even bother to continue this discussion.
I could continue, but there’s little to gain for either of us. Best.
@Rohit I would have explained more if you did not come across as sarcastic and aggressive. Using arch turns of phrase to me such as “or are we to assume that Leila’s follies were too pronounced for it to deserve a vote” is insulting and I won’t cop it NOTE: (because this is important, nothing happens in isolation)…coming on the back of your past angry explosions at people.
Such an approach doesn’t exactly engender confidence that ongoing explanations/conversation will be anything but to my detriment . I agree I could have explained my vote better by including commentary on the other film, but if we are to be held to such exactitude the exercise becomes an anxiety provoking chore, does it not. If you genuinely want to know more about where a person is coming from, there’s choices how to go about that which embrace generosity of spirit and a genuine curiosity, an openness and dare I say it willingness to actually learn something from the other – much preferable to throwing down the gauntlet and making the person feel flawed and under attack.
Frankly, if you cannot see that telling another voter their action was “vindictive” because you did not agree with them, and going outside the thread to do so is inappropriate – if you are actually prepared to defend yourself in that – then I don’t want to be around you. I’ve been participating in the cup to my capacity, uploading and watching what I can, I don’t have the time or energy to also do battle in this way.
I am not a fool, I know I am out of my depth with many people here in cinematic knowledge and sophistication but I hoped to learn and enjoy what I could from it but now I’ve re-thought the whole thing and am exiting, it takes up time and energy I don’t have and this on top of it all is not something I want to engage in.
I know I am ill mannered and probably need therapy but frankly speaking, all I needed was a good solid appreciation of that NZ film which I never got. Now lets stop this and not talk about leaving the cup or else I will be blamed for mental harassment as well. I don’t know what to say except that I am really not as evil as I am being made out to be on this thread.