This topic is part of the 2012 MUBI World Cup. If you have not already done so, please read the first post at the topic for an introduction to and rules about this year’s World Cup:
The purpose of this topic is to cast votes in the matchup listed above and also to be a forum for discussing the films in the match.
Anyone who has seen both of the films listed above may vote in this match. You must vote for whichever of the two films you personally like better. In order to vote you must post a reply to this topic containing one of the following sequences:
If you are voting for Tree of Knowledge: “Denmark (Tree of Knowledge) 1 – Syria (The Dupes) 0”
If you are voting for The Dupes: “Denmark (Tree of Knowledge) 0 – Syria (The Dupes) 1”
Your vote must contain the names of both films with a “one” after the film you are voting for and a “zero” after the other film. If your vote is not formatted in this way it will not be counted.
Along with your vote you are strongly encouraged to leave additional comments regarding your reactions to the films, your reasons for why you voted the way you did, and responses to other participants’ comments. Being able to have deep discussion about the films and different aspects of them is an important part of finding enjoyment in participating in the World Cup.
This match will end on Thursday, March 22 at 10:00 PM GMT. No votes attempted to be cast after that time will be counted. Shortly after the match ends the votes will be tallied and a winner of the match will be declared. If the films both receive the same number of votes, the match will be considered a tie.
The percentage of votes each film receives in a match will have an effect on whether or not the corresponding country will participate in the final round of the World Cup. Thus even if the film you vote for loses in this match, your vote will still be important.
The results of the matches as well as the schedule for future matches can be found here:
If you would like to participate but are unable to find sources to watch these films, please send me a personal message so that I can invite you to the private website featuring internet links to view the films.
Denmark (Tree of Knowledge) 0 – Syria (The Dupes) 1
Denmark (Tree of Knowledge) 1 – Syria (The Dupes) 0
I really, really, like both film. They both are great for me. But I think Tree of Knowledge touched me more. Sorry, I can’t really give you such sophisticated or intellectual reason, I’m not really that good at giving opinion, so that’s just it.
No strong reasons for choosing one over the other. I liked both the films. Tree of Knowledge was a bit more satisfying due to its fresh approach to its genre. The escape sequence in The Dupes is its high point.
Tree of Knowledge was good but I’ve seen it done before, even if it is one of the better efforts of this type of film. Felt like I was going to get arrested for watching it at times—us in the Puritan States have to watch out for these things—but it was very moving and captured that most awkward of phases in a very easy way.
But The Dupes gets the win easily, for me—not only for an artful, touching depiction of one hell of a problem, but for the visual style which impressed me even more, this being my first Syrian film. I can’t wait to ask my Syrian buddy if he’s seen it, and get him to watch it with me either way.
Great picks. Vive la Cup.
Just finished Tree of Knowledge. I can’t get enough of these types of films. It seems like the nords are very particular to these types of films too along with My Life as a Dog and the two films by Bille August (Zappa and Twist and Shout). May watch The Dupes later on tonight.
Denmark (Tree of Knowledge) 0 –*Syria (The Dupes) 1*
Denmark (Tree of Knowledge) 0 / Syria (The Dupes) 1
TREE OF KNOWLEDGE, a coming-of-age film for those who wonder about teens before the Beatles. With the oodles of titles which share the same subject matter, Nils Malmros’ treatment is a classic, one that’s underpinnings are as romantic, wise and deftly treated as a Goethe story.
THE DUPES, on the other hand, is modern, specific, political, and tragic as the Palestinian history which it documents. Like good fiction, the characters are understandable, common to we viewers in many essential ways, however their plight and desperation is anything but common, relying on heroism merely to find a job, to sacrifice life and limb to feed their children. We enter a Hell where no traveler can be guaranteed reward or return. A masterful film, specific in it’s historical account of Palestinian refugees in the first decade after their loss of homeland; and yet Tewfik Saleh’s film is oddly universal to the plight of all people bereft of family, occupation, familiar lands, culture, personal property— dilemma as old has national history itself. Luckily, the film is free from political cant, but works upon a smaller canvas with a palette of white hot monochromes, both in character development and cinematic landscapes. The Dupes is a singular example of why international film is unqualifiedly important to heart and mind.
Both excellent films.
Denmark (Tree of Knowledge) – 1 / Syria (The Dupes) – 0
Tree of Knowledge documents capricious nature of popularity. How can a sweet girl who doesn’t do much herself go from being the popular one to the outkast and another girl go the other way around? Well we can see some coniving from the latter, but ultimately we see how a person’s level of acceptance and reputation amongst the larger group is so unstable. Everyone is kind of holding on to their place, but one little move in one way or another can throw off everyone else. Who is loved becomes hated and the otherway around almost overnight, with no traceable reason. The littlest planted rumor can go nowhere or landslide to devestating results. This is how it is with children this age, but it underlies the lives of many adults as well.
The Dupes made me sweat and made the problems of the kids in Tree of Knowledge seem trivial. But are they really? Our our problems really to be compared to problems of people in other societies, or should it all be taken in context?
As a discussion topic, as House mentioned it, I also felt a little uncomfortable seeing some of the nudity of such young people. Now it’s not because I think it was in any way pornographic, but just because of the way the law in the United States has sometimes been intepreted and enforced regarding what other people find to be child pornography. Has anyone seen the special features on the Criterion DVD for The Tin Drum and the poor fellow who was arrested in Oklahoma for renting the film?
Did anyone in Europe who watched this feel unfomfortable about this in any way? Either because of their own feelings or because they were scared about some kind of law?
I didn’t find the nudity in the film to be at all an issue because it wasn’t used in an exploitative way.
there was only the bathroom scene and the bike light on crotch scene right? or did I nod off?!? Anyway I’m thinking after what’s gone down in exploiting the young in cinema it was barely noticeable
Haven’t watched The Dupes yet but thought TOK was brilliant, the best I’ve seen of it’s type. They played Tammy!!!
Wish I knew if he knew
What I’m dreamin’ of
Tammy … Tammy … Tammy’s in love.
I felt thirteen again and Jørn was my favourite boy
um. as someone in europe, i guess not, because i don’t remember any nudity apart from the bicycle monster, and combined with the spokes of the spinning wheel it just brought to mind a porcupine. (or since she was so young, maybe a you-can’t-fuck-me-yet hedgehog)….i don’t think the scandinavians were ever bothered so much about that kind of thing. i watched another tulio the other day from 1956 and there was a shot of pubic hair for absolutely no reason in the first 5 mins of the film.
there was only the bathroom scene and the bike light on crotch scene right?
They played Tammy!!!
Made me think of Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas
@magpies your post made me laugh hard three times. Can’t ask for more than that
yeah me too it’s worth listening to isn’t it?!? Let’s ♥
Tree of Knowledge really surprised me I have to say. Sentimentality was kept at bay and the awkward road to adulthood was extremely well handled. Some nice compositions and some terriffic acting from the youngsters. The lead actress reminded me very much of Elodie Bouchez and I loved the character of Mona. Her character grew from the ugly duckling no one wanted to know to the super hard as ice bitch. These transformations and demotions often happened in my school especially with girls and I haven’t seen a film until this one that expresses this in such a truthful manner. My only problem with this film is the teenagers seem blissfully unaware of anything else than who they were going to kopp of with at the end of the night. My favourite coming of age films such as Les Roseaux sauvages, Machuca, Young Torless and the films of Pialat feature some kind of historical or social context. These kids had no ambition no fears or interests outside their small tiny world. I am just not sure this was realistic.
The Dupes seems to be like Riss commented the very opposite. The characters exist as metaphors for the Palestinian people and this film talks about big issues with self conscious gusto and bravado. This is not only my favourite film from the competition but for me it stands alongside other great masterpieces of cinema from the likes of Tarkovsky, Fellini, Bergman, Paradjanov, Altman etc etc…… This film wins this match hands down for me, but not because it is up against a weak film.
This community amazes me and dismays in equal abundle. At times I feel like I have a place to go where people understand and appreciate the beauty of cinema. Then at other times I feel isolated and frustrated that users don’t see a true masterpiece before their very eyes. Hmmm well I guess it is good to have a unique taste in film!!
Whichever film wins this match I see this as job done. Both films pretty much unheard of and without any major distribution prove the point that there is a great deal of cinema made by small names and small countries out there which needs to be discovered and revaluated.
Hmmm well I guess it is good to have a unique taste in film!!
Of course it is!
It sure would be boring if we all agreed on what was great and what wasn’t. Heck there are places like that, plenty of gathering places all over the internet where The Dark Knight and Lord of the Rings are universally accepted as the best films ever made.
I scratch my head why you don’t see the masterpiece of Naked Island, but I still feel a more affinity with you and a lot of the other people on this site concerning film taste than I do to almost anyone else I know.
It’s a close one!
Tree of Knowledge – 6
The Dupes – 7
The turnout is pretty low this time around, right? I don’t think I really pay attention to the scores of the other matches, just who wins.
The turnout is pretty low this time around, right?
I think so far each match in the World Cup has had less votes than the previous, but that was usually the case in the Directors Cups as well so I’m not surprised.
Tree of Knowledge was one of the best coming of age film I’ve watched, but wow, The Dupes was just unbelievably great, despite some of the praise it got I wasn’t expecting to be blown away or anything, but I was.