Mulholland Dr. – unique but overrated, some scenes were really good but I think you just have to watch this 10 times over to appreciate it.
Fargo – What was the buzz all about? Yeah dark comedy..and? Loved No Country though
I think 2001 and Citizen Kane were considered greats by most viewers because these films pioneered technical film making, 2001 also had this beautiful transition from past to future which I really loved.
Bobby, what kind of emotional responses do you want Jake LaMotta to provoke in you?
the use of b&w wasn’t uncommon at the time. you can find it in indie films. it was really just scorsese’s nod to classic film noir. but i didn’t see anything compelling about the aesthetics of the film. the fight scenes weren’t anything james wong howe didn’t shoot back when he did “body and soul”. but ok. i’m not here to say scorsese didn’t use enough stylish tricks or not. i’m just saying i wasn’t moved by the filmmaking.
i dont consider the prison scene one of the most heartbreaking moments in cinema. it was nice as method acting, but nothing transcendent.
for me, travis bickle is a more interesting character emotion-wise. and henry hill creates more character identification. meaning, not that you agree with him morally or not. you’re just invested in what happens to him.
Bobby, what emotional responses do you want Jake LaMotta to provoke in you?
The Wicker Man; Blade Runner; Three Times
i dont want la motta to provoke a specific emotional response in me. i dont care if i hate him or love him. i just want to be invested in his story. i want to recognize a part of myself in him. but its not just that. i want to feel that his situation is a life or death struggle. i want his dramatic arc to have cosmic implications. cosmic meaning, in the context of his world. i want to see his world potentially crumble based on the choices he makes or the experiences he goes through.
hard to express exactly what i want. but its that certain je ne sais quoi that all effective art has.
1. Jules et Jim – I loathe this films existence. It always feels like in french films, and this may be indicative of the culture in general, they are trying to tell the viewer that being french is so very interesting. What’s wrong with the people in this film? They are wastes of space. Do any of them have jobs? All they do is complain about life, screw each other and call it seduction, and run away when things get to heavy.
2. Army of Shadows – It was tedious to sit through. I thought that a lot of the shots were beautiful. But the script was tired, perhaps new to the time, but mostly tired. This was the film that finally made me realize I hate all French Film.
3. Scarface – “Everyone loves Scarface” is what I was led to believe. “Scarface is the coolest”, no it is not. Story is boring and campy. I mean how many shots of sleazy immigrants in gaudy nightclubs, with made up music do we need? Typical film for the 70’s; over sexed “hero”, wants to steal other dudes girl, and then blows people to bits. I hate it.
4. Crash – I couldn’t stand this movie. I thought It was trash with an agenda. I want to get into an accident every time someone mentions this film.
5. 8 1/2 – I know that people will have issues with this one. Bored. Terribly bored. I watched the whole thing and was bored. I couldn’t care less for the Guido. I couldn’t sympathize with any of the characters. I did, however, think the perception of Americans in the film was pretty spot on. “The first cherries of Spring, good luck to Guido”, I mean who wrote this ****?
Hell, why not? I’ll lay a few down. (you’ll have to forgive the reasoning involved…it’s not going to be objective)
Goodfellas
Scarface
Oldboy
Spirited Away
El Mariachi
I’m not big on gangster films. Maybe I was born without the right gene or something, but I don’t find gangsters cool. I find Arnie in Conan cooler than any given realistic portrayal of a gangster. If I can’t sympathise with Ray Liotta for the two and a half hours, then why am I going to feel anything other than mild discomfort watching a movie where every passing minute is spent thinking, “These guys are such pricks. I’m not even interested in seeing them receive any kind of comeuppance”? Because I have to be honest, that’s what was going through my head. I’d been made to feel like a bit of a cretin for not having already seen it, and as the credits roll my friends are going “Such a $%£&ing brilliant movie!” and I’m thinking, “Which movie did you watch?”
That said, I understand the difference between ‘fun’ and ‘good’. There are some good performances there in Goodfellas. Not the most exciting girl to take to the prom, but she’s got the right credentials. Verdict: Not terrible, not brilliant.
Scarface…Scarface, Scarface, Scarface. I don’t know why this has become such a cult phenomenon (or maybe I do, though I may not like it). Still…“Say hello to my little friend!” whilst maniacally weilding an M16? Surely any kind of credibility goes down the drain right there (excluding any ‘so-good-it’s-bad’ kudos earned)? Really, really didn’t like Scarface. Pshh. What do I know?
Oldboy! I watch a ton of tennis and have done for years. I understand many advanced theories relating to the sport. I regularly preempt commentators when watching with company (mostly ‘cos I stream a lot of tennis from China, so whose to say what the commentators are saying?) and have an uncanny ability to predict the precise moment many top professionals will pick to switch up their routine. My actual forays on court have shown me, despite knowing all this and being relatively fit, to be a pretty sucky tennis player. I’m familiar with suspension of disbelief, but I don’t buy into the basic premise behind his ‘mad skillz’.
Oldboy is also laden with melodrama. This film is sticky with it; it’s like syrup. Now, I loves me some asian cinema, and I know that’s pretty standard stuff. I spent a summer watching practically nothing but Korean romance films and series every night with a tub of Haagen Dazs and a box tissues to wipe away the tears. The whole reason I watch anime is almost certainly because of unnecessary melodrama. Oldboy— it befits you not.
And yet, I like Oldboy. It’s just not this retina-searing sensation that it was popularised as by certain parties. Many people also compare Bittersweet Life unfavourably to Oldboy, which I find bewildering (there’s a gangster movie I can watch! Smooth protagonist, slick cinematography and a satisfying if predictable conclusion). It’s entertaining, sure, but both the press and people I know listed Oldboy right up there with being ejaculated on by Zeus.
Spirited Away. I own it. I love it. But what is the plot? Well, I know what the plot is, but I wouldn’t be surprised if many didn’t (upon first viewing, anyway) since good storytelling practice seems to have been lost amongst all the spectacle (but what spectacle!).
El Mariachi. Guilty confession: I haven’t actually seen El Mariachi. I’ve seen parts of it. I even bought it a few months ago, but couldn’t bring myself to watch more than the first ten minutes. It reminded me of those Lorenzo Lamas movies they used to play in the wee hours of the morning on the local channels in Cyprus (“TV Paphos, now broadcasting to eleven people! Can I get a ‘hell yeah’ from Giorgos Mavrikianou tuning in from Tala?”).
But Bobby, Jake LaMotta’s choices do make his world crumble. He loses his wife, his family, his restaurant, and his relationship with his brother.
Fair enough, I can see not liking the movie if it just isn’t your cup of tea and it clearly isn’t. I’m just finding your reasons to be very curious. For example, can you explain what you mean by cosmic implications and cosmic mmeaning in the context of his world? How would that have manifested itself in RAGING BULL?
Sorry, man, I’m really not intending to pick on you, I’m really not.
Carlos Reygadas’s Luz Silenciosa : Way too pretentious and “auteur like”.
Ridley Scott’s Blade Runner: I jus’t don’t get it
Slumdog Millionaire: OH COME ON
Titanic… 12 oscars….
Ben Hur.. 12 oscars…
will you all leave Bobby alone! my dad thought Raging Bull was boring, and i left it at that…i don’t agree with the man, but i can see how he came to that decision. that’s taste, baby!
Deej—you’re not missing much with El Mariachi. i’ve never thought much of Rodriguez, period. i remember watching it when i was a teenager thinking, “i’m supposed to like this movie because of the whole Pulp Fiction/Reservoir Dogs thing, but i can’t. it just kinda sucks!” (i was really into QT at the time…still am in fact.) if i could, i’d like to add Sin City to my list of overrated films that everyone just LOVES…i read the comic book—excuse me; Graphic Novel. it was good. this movie was not. i did not like Desperado, i did not like From Dusk Till Dawn. the only thing i like from Rodriguez, in fact, was Planet Terror, and even then it was kind of crappy movie. but it was so cheesy and campy, i got suckered in. if he decides to make Machete starring Danny Trejo, i might—MIGHT—become a fan. until then, Robert Rodriguez’s record witih me is like, 1-6.
@RAWDEALBUFFY Jules et Jim is really not about being french. One of the title characters, Oskar Werner’s Jules, is austrian anyway. ;-)
Marq – I know what you mean (although, it’s more like 2-6 with me for Rodriguez. I liked Desperado and give Sin City and Planet Terror a half mark each, weighed a bit more towards Sin City’s side). Incredibly, though, I forgot to mention Pulp Fiction. Tarantino’s success ratio for me peaks at zero.
Pulp Fiction sums up everything I don’t like about his films: every primary actor comes off like a mouthpiece for the man himself, voiding any purpose they have as actual characters, and all of the ‘groundbreaking’ techniques he uses can be directly associated to one of three words…homage, pastiche, reference. Like the use of rear projection during Vincent’s car journeys. It adds nothing to film but an aesthetic reference to an era when the technique was commonplace, which is neutralised by the fact that it looks so ugly in Pulp Fiction. I guess if you respond to his writing style he’s got a lot more to offer you, but it really does get to me. And could one black character not talk in that awful pseudo-jive? You like blaxploitation movies. We see. Now move on.
(I have a good feeling about Inglorious Basterds though, I have to say.)
oh Marq, talk about Sin City. I think that may be the most offensive film I’ve ever seen. And not in the sense that it was overly violent and misogynist (though it was). It was so insistent that no adaptation is necessary between graphic novel and movies that I found it offensive to the medium of film itself.
That combined with Spy Kids, makes me have an absolutely NO RODRIGUEZ policy on my movie watching.
wow. lot of dislike for “sin city”. i love the film, and i really like rodriguez. but another reason i love “sin city” is that it was co-directed by frank miller. i think its the best adaptation of a graphic novel for the screen ive ever seen. its literally how a comic book movie should look and feel. for me, it hit perfection on that mark. stylistically, it was flawless. and it was as faithful as can be to the books. and the women in the film…MY GOD. sexiest collection of girls in one film by far. that alone makes it worthwile.
back to “raging bull”. i dont know what im trying to say with all that cosmic bullshit. actually, i cant believe that came out of my mouth (or fingers)! the movie just didnt move me (thats what it should do, by definition of the word, right?). and i like scorsese. so im not disposed to his style. for some reason, i just didnt see any magic in it.
To add another one to my list – The Deer Hunter, which I just watched last night. It’s overlong, predictable, curiously devoid of any tension or excitement, and arguably racist.
i didn’t care for “the deer hunter” either. the whole film revolved around a game of russian roulette. that’s all i got out of the film, besides a few obvious depictions of war and veterans. the pacing and dramaturgy of the film were off. its a very unbalanced work, and the scenes are constructed as badly as those in “heaven’s gate”.
La Dolce Vita – I know there’s a lot of love on this board for this film, but I’ve tried to watch it twice and simply cannot get into it. (I’ve never really seen the whole thing, the furthest I’ve gotten into it before giving up is 2 1/2 hours.) It’s been so long since I attempted to watch this I can’t really remember what I disliked about it; I just remember being incredibly bored. I do enjoy Rota’s score, however.
Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid – Another film I haven’t seen in years, and I suspect I might enjoy it more if I rewatched it. But every time I consider renting it to check it out, I remember how much I disliked it in the first place (although I do enjoy the knife fight scene and Sundance’s instructions for shooting someone).
The Thin Man – I wasn’t engrossed in the mystery. I wasn’t amused by the comedy. Which, as I understand it, is kind of bad for a comedy/mystery.
American Graffiti – Add this to the stack of films in this thread that haven’t aged well. I saw this at my Dad’s instance, and afterwards he told me: “I’m sorry. I remember it being much better than that.”
Blade Runner – I don’t dislike this film… anymore. But it took me a good 3 viewings before I could really get behind it, and I still feel it WAY overrated. Yes, the visuals are amazingly jaw-dropping, but the story could be told much more coherently.
Bond-that’s funny, because i think i really like every movie you listed.
refering to your George Lucas seclection, if anything i think Star Wars is one movie that is WAY overrated, and i really like Star Wars! the first one may have done alot when it came along, but compared to The Empire Strikes Back and some of the better Star Trek movies Star Wars is just tacky, badly written, and poorly acted. i’ll still watch it plenty more, and if i have kids i’ll probably insist they watch it as well, but let’s call it what it is: a B-movie with two great sequals! (and some awful prequals)
as far as Sin City, he didn’t really adapt anything. the movie WAS the comic book! i paid $8 or $9 to watch the comic book i’d already read and seen, AND i got more out of reading it than i did seeing it. i just think Sin City the film was a fan boy’s wet dream (Rodriguez being the fan boy in question) come to over-budgeted hyper-life. Mickey Rourke was the ONLY good thing about that movie (yeah, the women were hot, but they’re hot in plenty of better movies than this…except for Jessica Alba. i don’t think she’s been in a good movie yet, has she?)
that brings up bigger questions then. what’s the worth of an adaptation? what’s the mark of quality for an adaptation? adherence to the original, or going in a new direction? what’s the value of an adaptation directed by the man who created the original source? is not the good adaptation one that adheres to the original as faithfully and closely as possible, or is it the one that surpasses the original? if it surpasses the original, can it still be called an “adaptation”?
@ Thorsten Funke, I have never enjoyed the style of French Film, so I am biased. You are right, the film is not about being french. This film probably is closer to Waiting for Godot than anything. The characters don’t realize that “action is man’s foremost obligation” to quote Rand. Maybe this is indicative of a culture still trying to find itself after WWII, Jules and Jim would be the first generation after the war I assume. However, It always feels like despotism and vulgarity just for the sake of despotism and vulgarity. I really miss the Super Objective of all the characters and I don’t understand the through line. Please feel free to enlighten me. I really would like to understand the genre so I can enjoy it.
“Some Like It Hot” immediately stands out in my mind. I’ve never understood why so many people consider this to be one of the best comedies of all time.
Pretty much any film of the French New Wave
Forrest Gump
Gone With The Wind
The Wizard of Oz
It will always be painful to read great films trashed with sophomoric judgments, and the David v. Goliath self-righteous tone of this whole thread topic is meant to bring the pain. But let’s see if I can add to it as best and as honestly I can-
1. Eight and a Half – This self-indulgent snoozefest works mainly if you buy into the whole world-weary “I have known too many women” posturing of Mastroianni, where I suspect most of the film’s biggest fans have known hardly any themselves. Secondhand decadence, firsthand sexism.
2. The Seventh Seal – extremely stilted camerawork, heavy-handed set pieces, terror that isn’t terrifying, humor that isn’t funny, ambience and philosophic dpeth that rival a high school play for significance and success in mise-en-scene.
3. 2001 – tries to go to work on you like drugs, that’s just to soften you up for the date rape. How many perfectly good dates have been hijacked and ruined by dour, unwinnable debates over the meaning of the end – “just because,” as was explained to me by my friends when I was fourteen, “that’s what you’re supposed to do when you go and see 2001.” Could even be fascist; is almost certainly some flavor of kool-aid.
4. Some Like it Hot – if you’re insecure enough to find men in drag an intrinsic hoot and a holler, then this film is your, er, meat; if you dig witnessing the sad decline of Monroe’s comic invrention into disturbing self-parody, then you get gravy and fries with that, too.
5. Pulp Fiction – distracting the first time; wears thinner and thinner every time after that. What kind of freedom does Tarantino believe in, and how likely is it to matter to the wannabe cool guy in the street? It’s Hollywood freedom, the freedom to overdose and tell jokes about it, to kill your rapist with blowtorch and pliers, to get away with anything as long as you are a charming enough hit man. In other words, it offers no freedom at all to the guy in the street.
6. The Searchers – this embarrassing compendium of racist and colonialist sentiments was one of the first projects of R.I.B. — the Rehabilitative Irony Bridgade — but in all the exhaustive dissertations written to try to prove that Ford was not just a booze-soaked jingoist and misogynist, no one has been able to neutralize the embarrassing sentiments themselves.
7. Forrest Gump – is it even worth attacking on artistic merits? At least this blockbuster was savvy and honest enough to admit that Hollywood longs for a viewing audience that’s thoroughly retarded, so that no one will question the severe ineptitude of the filmmaking and the woeful inadequacy of the mainstream Hollywood world view.
@ Bobby-
i think the film was less adapted, and more lazily transfered from one medium to the next. yes, of course its technically an adaptation by all textbook definitions, but when i saw the film i felt cheated. instead of seeing something creative being done to the graphic novel, all i saw was an exact replica which added nothing, took anything away, or even made it interesting to look at. since he did the exact same thing in the film as was done in the comic book, there was nothing to look forward to, except a bunch of hot chicks and bad actors. some of the lines read better on the page then they sound coming out of a person’s mouth. i also felt there was some poor casting, especially Bruce Willis. i like him normally, but he’s the perfect example of how they added a big-name actor to the wrong part, just like what Bruce Willis’ character was making fun of in the Player, ironically and appropriately enough. i’m not arguing that adaptations shouldn’t try to be as close to the source material as possible, but because they’re too different artistic mediums, i think some additions/subtractions have to be made by the artists in order to fit the new medium.
that’s also why i’m nervous about Watchmen. loved the novel, film looks great, but i wonder if its just gonna end up annoying me and lack suprise. i feel like if i’m going to invest 2 1/2 hours and $9.50, i should get something new out of it.
watchmen has no chance to be anything other than a failure. i still havent seen it yet. but the graphic novel is a masterpiece of the highest porportions. the definition of a masterpiece is something that has found its perfect form of expression. there’s no way they can approach the brilliance and impact of the novel.
that’s why none of alan moore’s film adaptations have worked. you can’t top a masterpiece! you can only louse it up as little as possible.
Justin, you are only right about The Searchers, Pulp Fiction, and Forrest Gump, and maybe Some Like It Hot.
Wrong about Eight and a half, 2001, and The Seventh Seal.
L.A Confidential. Solid and very watchable, but I really couldn’t understand what all the fuss was about
Dear God, I’ve stumbled onto the worst thread ever. I mean, taste is taste and no one’s going to like everything I like, but people bashing Vertigo, Taxi Driver, Blue Velvet, The Seventh Seal? This is too much. Fuck.
But, just so I can sleep at night without wondering what I would’ve posted, as well as irritating other people, my list goes as follows: Pulp Fiction, Fight Club, Rebel without a Cause, Scarface (De Palma) and No Country for Old Men.
actually, he’s right about everything EXCEPT “pulp fiction”.
Filmy
Vertigo, Citizen Kane, Casablanca I thought a movie lover should never dislike, disrespect these movies, so I set out to watch them twice each just to make sure I am not missing anything but ended up never liking them. a big NO.
On the contrary, I find some of the other choices here – Raging Bull, Taxi Driver, 400 blows, The Battle of Algiers, Chungking Express super fantastic.