true… i watched this today and it deals with some of the most serious subject matter in society such as inbreeding from rape and the film deserves recognition because this is really happening amongst people we see in our lives
so does Tyler Perry
big whoop
the film is a well acted lifetime movie
i have not seen any tyler perry films
at least tyler perry is a kitchen sink filmmaker
meaning he tries everything he can to entertain (much like the spanish channel)
precious just lies there
i see u had the same conversation on this subject already den about a month ago although i don’t believe such subject matter needs 2 be entertaining
TV movie of the week with some violence and lots of swearing. So what? It’s emotionally manipulative in the most blatant and single-minded way. I don’t see it saying anything except basically the same old schtick that Hollywood laps up – triumph over adversity. It’s Slumdog Gump.
there is no resolution of triumph in precious, certainly not having hiv
it does not need to be entertaining but it does need not to drag
average film at best. its like a million other classroom dramas ive already seen.
I don’t understand why you all are so quick to call this movie formulaic. Slumdog Gump? ewww. There’s nothing remotely appealing about Precious on the exterior, but she is smart in spite of being illiterate and at the very least makes us think twice about the way we perceive the horrifically low class. I don’t think it is glorified in the least. I read PUSH, it is much more graphic, and Sapphire based it off of real girls. Maybe your just dismissing it because your uneasy with actually admitting that there are people out there who have it this bad. Hardly a classroom drama, I mean come on. You guys will watch glamorized incest in The Dreamers, but when Precious keeps it real you get all turned off. I think it is HUGE that this kind of film is nominated for best picture. Not that I think it was the actual best picture or anything, but mainstream audiences are seeing a challenging film and that’s terrific. Kudos Oprah, the rest of you can step off.
Hey Leah! How are you?
I actually have changed my mind about whether I want to see it or not, and plan on seeing Precious when the opportunity presents itself…
However I should note, that NO ONE likes The Dreamers… except me. :)
hey! Junior year = no time for the auteurs, but other than that not bad.
The worst thing about Precious are the commercials for Precious. They are AWFUL. So bad. But the film is very much worth seeing. I feel like a better citizen for having seen it and that doesn’t happen often.
and I like The Dreamers too.
Ya the trailers make it look pretty bad, but I have found a few solid recommendations, so I’m going to give it a shot.
Also my tip for you is just don’t sleep. Then you’ll find time for the Auteurs. :)
the movie is formulaic. i didnt find anything challenging or new about it.
im not dismissing anything because i dont want to admit there are people out there who have it that bad. id rather see a hard-hitting documentary on the subject, if thats the case. not hollywood fantasy.
but i do appreciate that its a black film with a black director getting made in hollywood. those are rare enough indeed.
“I feel like a better citizen for having seen it and that doesn’t happen often.”
I felt the opposite. I mean, do we really need a film to tell us this is a problem? I think I can figure that out merely from the words “the most serious subject matter in society such as inbreeding from rape” (to quote a previous post). It’s the kind of film whose maudlin fumbling would appeal to people who apparently never, ever considered that these kind of problems could exist in a civilized society.
It doesn’t know the meaning of the word “subtle” and supposes that its audience can’t grasp the seriousness of its subject matter so it over-emphasizes every single significant moment, more akin to Kindergarten Cop than anything appropriate to the topic. I never got the impression that the film was “glorifying” the situation(s), but that scenes were handled sloppily (perhaps what some are calling “raw” – I’m not sure how else it could be “raw”), and god, if ever there was a need for a competent director it would be this film. It’s a shame that the book wasn’t more properly adapted.
@Leah: Posting a thread on a forum invites comment and if you’re unable to cope with opinions contrary to your own (i.e. all of us ignorant folk) then perhaps “no time for the auteurs” is a good thing. I think we all agree that the film touches on a subject that few films dare to and for that I appreciate its daring, but as a film, it is weakly directed and shallowly handled. I’m not going to simply ignore the film’s shortcomings because it deals with an important subject. You’re entitled to your opinion and so are the rest of us ignoramuses.
i really hated this movie.
we get it already, i mean jesus christ, ok. “we” (black people) struggle. lower class, sinlge mothers, pregnant teens, the ghetto, trying to survive, etc etc. we get it, jesus christ we get it.
as a black person, im kind of appauled at the representation of most black people in films these days.
i mean lets be honest, the MAJORITY of popular black films almost ALWAYS deal with the following:
-struggling or trying to survivie in the ghetto
-the first black person or group of black people to do something that white people have already been doing.
-a predictable biopic on a predictable black figure in american history
-something music related
-an minstrel show trying to pass itself off as a legitimate comedy
films dealing with black issues or films with a cast of mostly black people are becoming more and more predictable. if you cant see this, then youre in denial or just not that smart.
go watch “Ballast”, “George Washington” or “35 shots of Rum” or something like that instead.
I have not seen this film, so some comments from that angle:
The title in itself strikes me as problematic. “Precious, Based on the…blah, blah by blah blah”…who came up with that one? Why not go all the way and include the whole crew and cast in the title? Horrendously clunky.
It feels like the film is automatically ‘niche-selling’ itself to black people by using such a title, as in “you all have read this, so we want to make sure you know this is the film based on it.”
I hadn’t heard of “Push” prior to the film coming out, nor do I have any idea who “Sapphire” is, but as described (and mentioned) the material is certainly familiar-sounding. I have done enough independent video work in ghettos to have heard the stories again and again (in addition to the TV bombardment of ‘hardship among the poor’), so the material sounds “real” enough, just not exactly news any more.
This then leaves the question: did the film achieve something above and beyond these known basics, or is it a matter of it being the “difficult film” of the moment that it is fashionable to ‘understand’?
If the film truly is an achievement by a black filmmaker, then it needs to get honest recognition. If, however, it is a re-thread of common social issues, its popularity must stem from something else.
Until I see it, which of the above do you feel it is?
@marcus wp
you sure dont leave room for much else that a black film can be.
“a predictable biopic on a predictable black figure in american history”
so there shouldnt be any biopics on black history at all? i think its fair to say they all need to be made, eventually.
I see Marcus’ point and I have to agree. I think what the biggest problem is with the Americanized depiction of black protagonists (fictional or non) in film is the fact that audiences are greatly pandered to. I mean it’s assumed that audiences have no idea who, a figure in a biopic for example, is historically. We have Ray and Invictus (the first two that instantly come to mind for me at least) that waste so much time on the most known aspects of these figures that the films are not so much biopics but “preludes” to the biopic giving us all the “cliff notes” version of these characters’ lives.
“They”, for some reason, insist on focusing on these “general” themes without giving us a specific portrait and it’s obvious why; because there’s the opinion that audiences must universally relate somehow to these great figures – but what makes these people great is they weren’t just the average joe off the street. Studios or writers (whoever is to blame) are so concerned with convincing the average person that “yes, average people like you can make a difference and be so monumentally successful/influential as these great people”, when in reality, that’s just not true and it’s shameful that people are under this illusion. You have work hard to be great, greatness doesn’t just fall in your lap like some kind of American Idol award.
So, I think Marcus’ statement “a predictable biopic on a predictable black figure in american history” is right on because there are some of us who already know about the fundamental/integral figures in American history (I do and I’m not even American, so it’s pretty sad that a non-American knows more about American history than the average American), so let’s move on and cover some of the lesser known figures. Anyway, it’s a common problem not just with African-American biopics, but all Hollywood biopics in general; this pandering to an uneducated audience. Sure, they all should be made, but there’s TONs of literature/documentaries etc. on Ray Charles (for example), not to mention all of his music, so is it really necessary that we devote this entire “rebirth” (after the death of course) of this well-known legend and ignore a musician just as important (IMO at least) such as Sun Ra who most people have probably never heard of (and probably never will unless they somehow stumble into the world of free jazz by chance).
So it’s a very good thing to have high standards IMO. It may not be so great for the uneducated populace, but maybe it will drive them to learn more and be something greater.
@Claus: To be honest, I hadn’t heard of or read the book, Push, either before I heard about the film coming out, but I made it a point to read it beforehand (something I always do just out of habit – after, of course, deriding myself that I hadn’t read it already, heh) and I did like the book. There are a few problems that carry over from the book to the film (in my mind at least), but these are purely aesthetic things not relating to the story itself. Anyway, to answer your question, the reason I don’t think too highly of the film is because it didn’t elevate its material to the status that it deserved. I mean, we have a story of almost impossible hardship and yet we’re told this (cinematically) in a quasi-stylistic cookie cutter fashion that the soul, the very impact of the story is lost in the process. Obviously, it seems to have affected others, but I think it’s purely the idea of the story that impacts people instead of the story itself. I just found it frustrating because of what it could have been. After having read the book, I was thinking “man, if this is done right it could possibly be one of the best films of the new century” and then I saw the film several weeks later and was so incredibly angry I couldn’t speak to anyone for a couple hours afterwards. It was the idea that this story was wasted on inept directing and that, to me, is unforgivable.
“a predictable biopic on a predictable black figure in american history” is right on because there are some of us who already know about the fundamental/integral figures in American history (I do and I’m not even American, so it’s pretty sad that a non-American knows more about American history than the average American), so let’s move on and cover some of the lesser known figures.”
BAM!!
you sure dont leave room for much else that a black film can be.
“a predictable biopic on a predictable black figure in american history”
so there shouldnt be any biopics on black history at all? i think its fair to say they all need to be made, eventually."
is that really what you got from my statement? really?
what i am saying is, (FOR THE MOST PART), black films have been dealing with the same subject matter for a long time. LETS DO SOMETHING NEW. LETS EXPLORE SOMETHING NEW. thats what im saying. im not saying the things i listed are the ONLY things black films can be (how could you honestly think i meant that? lol).
what im saying is…theres a ton of issues, people, historic events, subject matter, etc that havent been explored yet THAT CAN BE & SHOULD BE.
whens the last time you saw a good movie about the black middle or upper class. it does exist. whens that last time you saw a film about black people dealing with depression (and not depression brought on by living in a rough area/the ghetto, etc). there are a few, but generally speaking, not that many.
theres not that many because theres not that many black films in general, if we’re speaking in general terms and relating to mainstream (white) hollywood cinema.
if your beef is with the mathematics of the situation, are there more middle or upper class black folks than lower class? if the answer is no, then maybe you have justification for seeing the representations you see on film in the numbers you see them in.
so the question is, what is this “new” thing you want to explore? of course there should be a ton of different stories from a ton of different black directors. doesnt work that way though. not when all the studio heads are white and it doesnt serve their interests to relinquish control of the means of representation. so now we can get to the down and dirty specifics. why are these explorations not being made? because obviously its in someones interest for them NOT to be made. who stands to gain, and who stands to lose, whether things change or remain the same? after all, black films make money (and theyre cheap to produce). who do they make money for? who has a vested interest in keeping things that way?
precious is very well-acted; it’s a bit of a minpulative tear-jerker, but that’s not the worst thing to be, and it’s pretty shrewd about that at times. It’s worth watching once.
I do put forward a couple objections. I think setting the story (film & book, which I likely won’t read, alike) specifically in Harlem in the 80s makes it seem like the problems of precious are things of another place & time.
A common complaint has been that the film plays to white guilt; it features pathetic, stereotype-reinforcing black charcters & white ones who earnestly want to help. I think one of the other problems that reactions to Precious highlight is that it allows people to (racistly) attribute the problems of the picture’s characters to urban black’s. The cause of the misery in Precious is poverty & lack of education, not race. This story unfolds in the real world every day, in urban & rural areas, in families of all races, including (as everyone would forget or deny) whites. As frank as Precious would seem to be, it continues to perpetuate racial stereotypes & permit willfull ignorance of the true volume & causes of a true socail ill.
I may be being Amerocentric here; it wouldn’t surprise me for a user from the UK to claim they could remake Precious with an all-chav cast. Other countries may prefer to type or ignore the problems of their poor the same as we do.
I must also say I am not claiming sexual abuse as a problem of the poor; I’m no expert on the topic but I’ve seen no evidence to consider it an anomaly of any class or race. That is another topic not frequently explored in US studio films, so (barring objections from victims or experts on the subject) I would commend it for depicting that so bluntly.
the new “thing” (or “thingS”) to explore are new storylines, new plots, new subject matter, new characters and character studies dealing with black people.
less neck rollin’, strugglin’, coon-ish, inner city, B.S. thats been explored for far too long.
i guess what im trying to say is…more Charles Burnett/Julie Dash/Steve Mcqueen(“hunger”) less Tyler Perry/Wayans Brothers. more films killer of sheep/ballast/george washington/shes gotta have it/etc and less “madea’s family cookout in the hood” movies
is it clear what im trying to say?
i hear you. more balance is what you want. thats fine. like you, i hope we’ll see it someday soon.
Does the melodrama of PRECIOUS—which is resistant to conventional uplift and nearly gothic in its heightened emotion—tell us something true about lives too often unexamined? Or should we accuse this unsparing depiction of inner-city victimhood of hysterically reinforcing stereotypes, of reducing Precious to a case study who literally runs away with a bucket of fried chicken? That I never quite knew whether to applaud or recoil is entirely to the movie’s credit. Perhaps I’m willing to give Daniels the benefit of the doubt because the movie’s power is ultimately personal rather than social; what’s enriching about Precious’ story is not how it confronts society’s darkest corners, but how it convincingly takes us deep into the specific inner life of a specific individual. PRECIOUS may or may not say much about blighted communities—we’ll have to discuss it over coffee—but it certainly says a lot about one young woman fraught with pain and strife.
In other words, much of the griping in here seems focused on the movie’s social relevance, but neglects to notice that the movie’s virtues are largely psychological. And the two main performances do a very good job of expressing those private emotions. Overall, I liked it (not as much as, say, BALLAST, but enough to resist the inevitable yet knee-jerk backlash).
“So, I think Marcus’ statement “a predictable biopic on a predictable black figure in american history” is right on because there are some of us who already know about the fundamental/integral figures in American history (I do and I’m not even American, so it’s pretty sad that a non-American knows more about American history than the average American), so let’s move on and cover some of the lesser known figures. "
Please, no snide America-bashing.
“as a black person, im kind of appauled at the representation of most black people in films these days.
i mean lets be honest, the MAJORITY of popular black films almost ALWAYS deal with the following:
-struggling or trying to survivie in the ghetto
-the first black person or group of black people to do something that white people have already been doing.
-a predictable biopic on a predictable black figure in american history
-something music related
-an minstrel show trying to pass itself off as a legitimate comedy
films dealing with black issues or films with a cast of mostly black people are becoming more and more predictable. if you cant see this, then youre in denial or just not that smart."
While I do agree that this is a problem, I’d like to point out that the representation of blacks in American culture is more complex than . The Cosby Show is one of the most successful television series of all time and it’s about the daily lives of a black doctor and a black lawyer.
I thought PRECIOUS was just great.
A remarkable achievement that could not have been a breeze to make for any of its cast members, especially its young lead.
I felt some real truth coming through here… I’m just not seeing the stereotype thing, because this film goes well out of its way to show us that Precious is not intended to represent every black woman. She represents one young woman in one type of predicament.
The depiction of black women in this film runs the gamut of social “types”.
I do suspect that the details of this story might be difficult, if not horrifying, for some young black people of today to countenance, especially if they do not come from the urban ghetto. In fact, I wonder if the black high school kids I know…. would even dare to see PRECIOUS. The movie is as wounding…. as it is triumphant.
I think the filmmaking was just marvelous… beautifully varied and constantly inventive. If this is a “genre” film, then for fuck’s sake let’s have some more of them.
I have only one regret with this film—- and it is a big regret: I regret that I did not see this film in the cinema in a predominantly black part of town.
Americans, please don’t play naive and pretend that you don’t know what I’m referring to here.
I would have liked to have seen every black woman in that audience simply jump up from her seat screaming in horror, giddy laughter and emotion at the events in this film. I had thought that my seeing MALCOLM X in Oakland— on the film’s opening day—- was a thrill beyond compare—- I actually adore it when audience members comment freely, shout and move their bodies at the events onscreen. Now THAT’S thrilling emotional entertainment.
But I know that PRECIOUS probably drove black cinema-goers, especially women, into a lather…. a near riot in the auditorium… And I mean that literally, not figuratively. We’re talking a LE-SACRE-DE-PRINTEMPS-in-1925-Paris-reaction, or a BLACKBOARD-JUNGLE-in-teddyboy-London-reaction. . Especially the mindblowing scenes with Mo’nique… who will FOREVER go down in movie history as having given us one of the most despicable screen villains ever. (I have a thing for cinema villains… I applaud the actors who dare to be despised onscreen…) When Mo’nique sits there with the social worker… and blandly rationalizes away her role in her daughter’s incestuous abuse…. I just know that cinemas in Oakland, Harlem, East St. Louis, Houston, Detroit, Watts/Compton…….. absolutely fucking burst open at the seams with audience outrage… And I would’ve given anything to have been part of that. THAT’S how much I believe in drama, in theatre, in cinema.
It’s surprising to me that so many people found this film so hopeful. I found it utterly hopeless. It came across far too fantasy-like for me. A film with this kind of subject matter needs more delicate treatment. Lee Daniels is talented, but I felt that his directorial choices were deeply misguided.
leah
I saw the film Wednesday night and it blew me away. Peter Travers was there doing an inteview with screenwriter Geoffrey Fletcher, and he pointed out that from a far this film sounds like a Lifetime movie. And he’s totally right, when you think about it. But EVERYTHING works. Because they don’t hold back and it’s raw, but never melodramatic or glorified. And I want everyone I know to see this movie. I don’t even care if they walk away calling it the worst movie they’ve ever seen (because they are ignorant, and they will), it has an incredible impact.