So let’s see, shouldn’t we hear the other person’s opinion? That being said it is okay to disagree with your friends when judging a movie. I prefer to watch movies alone to think of my own opinion.
For me it’s whether or not I can suspend disbelief; although that doesn’t apply to surrealist or experimental films, nor to documentaries. I think we’ve all been in that situation where a friend has excessively praised a movie and then we’ve been somewhat let down by all the hype.
The first time I saw Bresson’s “Pickpocket” I was completely underwhelmed! I’d read about it and it had been recommended, and I even saw it being screened in a theater – but it didn’t move me. However, I re-watched it at home about 6 months later and for some unexplainable reason I found I enjoyed it so much more! Sometimes a movie takes that second view, or repeat viewings to sink in. I guess if it percolates in your subconscious for a while, the pieces start to fit together a bit – at least it works that way for me!
I think this tends to happen to me more with older films, where I have to mak adjustments for the fact that it’s not my time, not my era. So I tend to give more of a benefit of the doubt that it’s all maybe better than it was. We’ve already seen lots of cases on this very site where people disagree about the merits of a film or a filmmaker. I know I think Hitchcock and Bergman only made a handful of really great films between them. I think Fellini’s films are flawed even at their best. I’ve never warmed to Cassavetes. Those are fairly unpopular opinions, lol. I guess I dislike contrivance more than anything, I need to see something that’s overwhelmingly real, but we all have different ideas of what that means. Some would say Ophuls is incredibly contrived, or Kenneth Anger, but I don’t think so, because for me the mise en scene is very close, nearly identical, to what those directors are saying about the world.
I also like to watch movies alone in order to have a better chance at developing my own opinion – the same way I enjoy going to museums alone and one reads a book alone. I also really enjoy watching a film when I have no idea what to expect, as in whether or not I have seen too many previews or heard too much hype.
Even though getting back the moment when you’re seeing something remarkable for the first time is impossible, and I try to always remember how a film made me feel after the first time I’ve seen it because I think that this tells you a great amount about your gut feelings and first impressions. I also think that this is a rule that is made to be broken and we’ve got to remember that because we are constantly changing as human beings that many films can be completely different every single time we see it. You may only like a film on a somewhat superficial or clinical level when you’re younger, for example, and really connect with it more deeply when you’re a little bit older. Films also change for me after a good discussion about them with other people, and that’s invaluable as well – which I guess is a big reason that we write on this forum in the first place, right??
That doesn’t really answer your question, Howard, but I suppose personal, instantaneous, gut feelings are always hard to explain the reasoning behind – it is something that we do almost without thinking. We also shouldn’t be too hard on ourselves in terms of changing one’s opinion about a film that everyone else may seem to love or hate, because that’s what makes things more interesting. As Maude said in ‘Harold & Maude’ : “Consistency isn’t REALLY a human trait.”
The main influence of opinion I allow myself is recommendations by critics whose personal tastes are close to my own, usually to recommend films that I would not have otherwise seen.
Beyond that, I watch the film, and then get the critical consensus. I still keep my own opinion and formulation of it.
I like to think that I can make up my own opinion (in fact, I do watch most movies alone). But I am always open to changing that opinion. So if someone makes a convincing case for or against a film, that I initially disagree with, I’ll hear them out. Whether you’d call that an inability to have my own opinion, I don’t know.
Usually it’s people appealing for a movie they liked and I didn’t. I’m getting more and more Jay Sherman-y lately.
Ah, Cassavetes, a room divider if ever there was one. For me, I love love love Killing Of A Chinese Bookie. It’s a complete experience, so much to return to. I also love Opening Night, though not with the same fervor. Minnie and Moskowitz, after two viewings, I found it to be a lovely film. Warm and human and funny. I remain fond of Gloria. Lesser Cassavetes, sure, but very breezy, and I love the kid. I like the jazz inflection of Shadows and the presence of black faces moving the narrative along without the burden of some politically correct, simpering Liberal agenda. They are just people. I’ve never had much luck with Faces, maybe that’s why I keep returning to the dvd, to look and to remain open. No change yet, perhaps one day…Husbands I’ve only ever found to be hectoring. Not much luck there, and I never revisit it. A woman Under The Influence took me a long time to come to positively. I don’t return to it often, but when I do I am engrossed. I’ve only seen Love Streams once, on a poor VHS some time ago. I found it to be quite moving, and restrained. I remember thinking it somber even. Cassavetes’ goodbye. I really would love to see a brand new dvd of this one. It deserves it. It’s very important that this happens.
The key at the beggining of course is to know who to listen or to read, if it’s a critic you usually respect or if it’s a friend who knows you enough and you know him enough etc, so their recomendations won’t be complete nonsense.
But it’s always difficult when you know a director for the first time without any references, if it’s not love at first sight it maybe difficult to find it’s real value also the refercences could work the other way around and force you to like it like the post is saying. It’ll be always difficult mostly when you’ve found a filmaker-critic that you respect TOO much, you’re most likely to love the films he likes and the films he makes, it’s a simple fanatism fase that if you love Rivette you’re gonna love every single one of his films, and the ones he loves. Though we don’t like to accept it we all have a little bit of this, wich doesn’t come from a bad place necesarily, it’s a way of trying to understand this person we admire. doing this in an honest way may help us found what distance us from them, wich is great! cause we stopped being influenced and we start being ourselves.
Another important thing is that we’re always mutating and evolving so we can hate a film we use to love and vice versa.
if i’m surprised i hate a film i feel i’m not supposed to hate: cause X critic-says it, cause it feels ans seems like the films that are close to you, cause Rivette thinks it’s the best film ever, cause in escence and ideology is just what you think cinema should be… but somehow i just didn’t like it. then maybe i should just acept the fact, there’s nothing wrong with it, there will always be a certain mistery in cinema wich is beautiful.
But if i insist on the matter i log on and find everyhting possible of that film! said and written, in favour and against then discuss it with my friends for hours and maybe, just maybe then i can find the misterious psicological and methaphisical reasons that made me find the film simply tedious.
i think whether we want to admit it or not, outside opinion is very important to anyone making a judgment on film. as individuals, we only know so much, and film like any other area of study can be seen from many different vantage points with multiple contexts of analysis.
Thus, one is really only doing a disservice by “not” reading up on the already existing academia that pertains to a specific film.
For example….I think it is safe to say that none of us would appreciate film if not for a basic film education, whether you read books, majored/minored in it, or have a graduate degree, it definitely broadens your scope.
I will admit I will usually have less dramatic opinions when the person I am watching something with disagrees with me. I wait till I have a second look because maybe the person I’m with was right and I just missed the negative or positive aspects of the film. That being said after a second viewing if I have that same feelings I will fully support my opinion.
This year is a good example for me sticking to my opinion. I loved Benjamin Button and didn’t like Slumdog that much. Daily I have friends and family telling me how I’m so wrong about not being in love with Slumdog Millionaire. I have stayed by my opinion though when talking to them.
Agreed Crap Monster, and of course you’re completely right, it’s the case of all of us i guess. But the problem stands in the extremes.
they’re people TOO academic and theoretical driven that leave no place for the sensorial mysteries of the art expression, and it’s the case of most film theorists and critics, but that’s another subject.
I usually first form my opinion then here the opinions of others and then watch the film again.
We are all adults. I usually follow gut feelings – some films move you, some just don’t have the same effect. But I always welcome opinions, or suggestions just in case I might have missed something while watching a particular film, then watch it again if possible. I didn’t care much for Reservoir Dogs and I got lot of sticks from people as a result. I tried, end up watching it again, total of three times. Now I like it even less. At the end of the day, if you don’t like it, no amount of critical analysis or theories can make you appreciate it.
I basically form my own opinions of a film – and stick to them. However, I am influenced by the appearance of certain films on lists – those films that repeatedly come up on critical lists. Occassionally, I have to ask myself why I would NOT put a particular film I have seen in as high a rating as others – an example, The Godfather. Also, I will sometimes watch or re-watch a film based on a high rating to see what I think. So, in this way, I guess I can be influenced by opinion, just a bit, to question my own. Also, anyone on this site – I will often watch a film I haven’t seen based on a recommendation or write-up, or even look at a film differently, based on someone’s observations. I respect all the people on this site and value their opinions, even if they are completely opposite to my own. But whether I like a film or not, is entirely a personal choice. Here, the opinions of others don’t really matter.
i guess i should have read the thread more carefully. my response was in context of “judging” a film, not whether or not a particular work connected to me personally. i.e. Citizen Kane is a great film but it hold no emotional or personal value for me.
So in other words, just disregard what I said earlier, this should completely be about a purely emotional response.
I really try to not think about outside opinion when watching a film. It’s obviously easier for new films but even for older films that have the “classic” label, I try to watch them with an open mind. Having said that, if I come out of a film not liking it but then I learn that everyone loves it, I won’t automatically let that sway me. I’ll rewatch the film and give it another chance. But I trust my feelings and how I respond to things and that usually doesn’t effect my interpretation of a film.
Last year I had similar reaction to Benjamin Button – I saw it before it was released so I didn’t know what critics were saying about it and I ended up being really disappointed by it. Even after it came out and everyone said it was the best movie ever made, I still believe in my response to the film. I don’t believe you should let others tell you how you feel about a film; your feelings, your beliefs are wholly your own.
Yes, I exist in a vacuum. That said, I do love the film festival experience when you can go into a film with a complete blank slate, knowing absolutely as little as possible about it. I don’t see how you can otherwise not be influenced by outside opinion if you consider it before seeing a film – either to react with or react against.
I think most people here can differentiate between movies that they love and find moving and amazing (I think you can pretty much tell if a movie’s a favorite of yours if you keep talking or thinking about it even days of weeks after watching it) and movies that aren’t that moving and don’t live to their expectation and the hype but are considered essential and great by others.
Anyway, I think this is the case in most films included in IMDB’s top 250 list. Because of the hype that particular movies get from critics and other people (even though the films aren’t that moving or great at all), people tend to rate particular movies higher due to the influence of others, due to the hype. I won’t mention which films in the IMDB but you know which ones I am talking about.
That’s what I did a year ago when I watched Juno. Even though it didn’t impress me at all and it didn’t live up to its hype, I rated it higher than what it really deserves. I mean, it’s just an average film and, despite what Roger Ebert says, it’s not that witty. But now I guess I know better. Looking back to it, I didn’t even like it that much when I was watching it. I mean, sure, Breathless is an essential film because of its innovation and whatever but to have an opinion about it and not to be influenced by others, did you really like the film? Did you find it cool or just plain empty? Sure, Vertigo has a great twist ending, and the climax is just amazingly well-done but did you enjoy the rest of the film before the climax? Did you enjoy James Stewart in his car just spiraling around town and creepily stalking someone for half an hour or so?
“Even after it came out and everyone said it was the best movie ever made, I still believe in my response to the film.”
Wow, I don’t think I know a single person who said Benjamin Button was the best movie ever made. Yikes.
When the film was released, they put up a giant billboard on Sunset Blvd. with this quote from Rex Reed:
“The Curious Case of Benjamin Button is a monumental achievement — not only one of the best films of the year, but one of the greatest films ever made.”
I had to avoid looking at that billboard for weeks for fear I’d want to run somebody over.
I don’t care very much while watching the movie about what anybody’s said about it. I’m just trying to enjoy the ride. It’s when I get done watching a movie, all my thoughts have come together on it, and then I find out a ton of people consider it a five star classic and I’m thinking it’s generous to give it three stars that I wonder if I screwed up somewhere. I’ll try and rewatch it if I have time to see if I missed anything. For the most part, I’ve found that my initial feeling stands up. As a wise man once said, you like what you like.
I hate when I have high expectations for a film and then it beats me into the ground with disappointment. (ahem…ahem…Waking Life…)
It depends. Sometimes I pick a movie based on the cover, or the title. Hell, sometimes I read what you guys say about them…often actually. I do not see that as something which ultimately limits my enjoyment of a film. Hell, I’m glad.
Oh God, Rex Reed… Ugh. He’s a shill basically, isn’t he?
Yes.
Why is it “hard to trust your own insincts”? Anyway, it’s more like…trust your own eyes.
>>How do you know when something really connects with you, personally?<<
Huh? How do you not?
I think knowing if a film really connects with you (by that I take Howard to mean that you really like the film) can be tough—depending on the extent to which you care about the opinions of critics and the knowledgeable moviegoers. If you really care and you really relish being part of an elite group, then knowing how you really feel about a film can very difficult. Why? Because people like this know the films they should like and the films they shouldn’t. If you’re honest reaction deviates from these norms, then you risk ridicule and not being part of the in group. People don’t like to admit that they are swayed by such things, but I think they often are. People like this often suppress their true reaction to the film because they want to have “sophisticated tastes.”
Now, I say all this because this is something I’ve struggled with and—to some extent, still struggle with. I have to fight to give my honest opinion—to both myself and to others.
I struggle with this notion every time I sit down to watch a film these days as I’m mostly catching up on ‘classic’ foreign films. I’ve always been of the opinion that if I go to see something that everyone who’s opinion I respect says is good and I don’t like it then something’s awry. If that’s the case then I will automatically give the film much more thought about why I didn’t like it and read up much more on why others loved it. Then I’ll rethink it again and usually come to the conclusion that the film was really better than I at first thought. Then I get a bit confused and frustrated for a short while. Then I think about it some more which leads me to calm down about the whole thing. After that I’ll start considering watching the film again armed with my new information. That’s usually as far as it goes because there’s a ton of films I haven’t seen yet seen and so watching the film again goes on the back burner. From that point onwards I’m looking forward to seeing the film again to re-evaluate it. It’s complicated.
I often find myself questioning if I am in any position to judge and evaluate films. Often, even if I find an artistically inclined film utterly “boring” or very disagreeable, it will garner a >=5/10 score in my book because I feel the need to appreciate the artists’ work and accept that the work may have been made for another audience or fail to comprehend why we should be criticising/evaluating a “work of art”. Of course, this term is used very loosely. Some may consider Sin City a work of art. But I did not and found myself disliking the film. On the contrary, some might not consider Dancer in the Dark a work of art. But because I believe that Von Trier is trying to express ideas he values, although I found the film nauseating and the attempt to be tragic rather disagreeable, I marked it down as a 5 anyway and feel little disdain towards the film.
Howard Fritzson
I know how hard it is to trust your own instincts when you watch a film. I sometimes wonder if I am liking something because someone told me it was good. How do you know when something really connects with you, personally?