Avatar and composition and film fans vs reasonably knowledgeable public
Yeah…as I was transported to another alien world, populated by 12-foot humanoids and hammerhead rhinos, not to mention glow-in-the-dark plants, I thought to myself: “Man, this is City Lights all over again.”
Idiocy in the U.S. is getting worse every year, and it looks like it will just continue getting more moronic.
You didn’t think they could have toned down the music just for a few moments? I don’t remember clearly getting to sit and hear the sounds of the forest which I thought would have been awesome. The composition was a distraction sometimes except for some parts where it added to the movie.
City Lights “You can see now?” “Yes, I can see now.”
Avatar “You can see me?” “I can see you”-same context but in alien-ness not blindness;twice said,very clear
Tiny part, just something I noticed and I thought of the famous ending to the movie.NOT POSITIVE OF THIS just thought I’d mention it. Of course Cameron’s opus is untouchable for some obviously even though I wasn’t even saying anything negative so…
Thought the idea for this site was good but screw it, done with this site
Shameful, the internet could really be awesome for trading ideas if it wasn’t for people who insist on snarky remarks. It wouldn’t be bad if it wasn’t such a constant drip. What a &$(*#ing waste of time. Oh well, this site just lost someone loves cinema.
I prefer “City Lights”
Of course they aren’t blue 3-D image-captures, but you can’t have everything.
Oh well.
In terms of composition, what bothered me most was Cameron’s use of zooming. It happened at least ten times in the film, and I really couldn’t figure out why he implemented it. Not only did it feel false, but it would also throw off his mis-en-scene which would have stayed fine without the zooming. I understand if you want to go for a verite, slightly docu-drama edge, but considering the rest of the photography, zooming felt inappropriate.
It was the same technique used in his ex-wife’s movie. Only thing was, that it was perfectly suited for The Hurt Locker.
Avatar rips off the Little Tramp? Say it ain’t so.
and Dances with Wolves
and Fern Gully
and Halo
I agree Cameron could have been a little more patient with those jungle scenes, but he was clearly more in love with his script. I just don’t understand why these directors are shooting 3D movies like they’re 2D when the possibilities seem endless, glorious even! Honestly, the Alice in Wonderland preview got me more excited than Avatar did its entire 2 hours and 40 minutes. =(
Ah yes, and epidemic of idiocy is now exclusive to the United States…
Sorry Maud’s Son: I was just trying to be a smartarse in my last post. I love Avatar. And I love City Lights a lot more. We were never going to get an original narrative with Cameron’s film; with the kind of money spent on it, it was always going to be a “safe” story (which has huge chunks derived from Poul Anderson’s “Call Me Joe”, written in 1957).
So Jim Cameron recycles story-lines, so what? For my money, Cameron proved he possessed a superb cinematic skill set with Aliens, an action film that does not waste a frame nor your time. Cameron employs those skills to deeply immerse us in the character’s world. I was so caught up in the Avatar experience that I was unaware of its three-hour running time—I also forgot that I was watching it in 3-D. Avatar is very much like another modern classic, Blade Runner. And like the latter, Avatar will be viewed again and again for the same reason we revisit all of our favorites—they transport us in an exciting and very satisfying way.
Only Avatar is better than Blade Runner (which, for me, gets boring pretty quickly – which Alien – or, indeed Aliens – never does).
“I also suggested that the native dance was taken from Baraka…
…Thought the idea for this site was good but screw it, done with this site
Shameful, the internet could really be awesome for trading ideas if it wasn’t for people who insist on snarky remarks. It wouldn’t be bad if it wasn’t such a constant drip. What a &$(*#ing waste of time. Oh well, this site just lost someone loves cinema.”
Uh, Maud’s Son, didst Maud raise you to be a wee bit defensive? Sorry you won’t be returning to this thread anytime soon so you can learn that the dance “taken from” BARAKA was in fact taken by BARAKA from an Indonesian perfomance-style called Kecak, itself not an authentic or ancient style but rather one created to appeal to western visitors, if I’m remembering correctly. Anyways, please note it was also taken from BARAKA by THE FALL and also Mr. Bungle and Tom Waits who have used the vocal stylings from Kecak. If you are going to bug Cameron anytime soon about his theft, please cc Tarsem, Waits, and Patton to your note. Just a snobby suggestion borne out of my depth of knowledge about Kecak.
If I may be permitted some more good ol’ fashioned American snobbery, was anyone else bugged by Horner’s shameless recycling of cues from WILLOW and GLORY (at LEAST, I probably failed to notice many more)…I figured he’d be through providing hack scores for Cameron after copping Khatchaturian’s GAYANEH opening so, so, so blatantly (and without credit) for the opening of ALIENS. Lame. Used to love the dude. Till I found out what a hack he was about stealing compositions from actual composers.
Maud’s Son, post some more of your thoughts about compositions…I never had any problems with them being overbearing, but as I’ve kind of said above, the soundtrack was a little disappointing and, yeah, maybe some more ambiance of the jungle-planet would have been welcome. Thought the compositions were fine.
at STEVE: “I just don’t understand why these directors are shooting 3D movies like they’re 2D when the possibilities seem endless, glorious even! Honestly, the Alice in Wonderland preview got me more excited than Avatar did its entire 2 hours and 40 minutes.” As I said above, thought the compositions were fine, especially a lot of the stuff with the holographic screens in the control center. But YES, the ALICE IN WONDERLAND trailer displayed Depth Design that really seemed intelligent and carefully thought out, SO much more so than the PIRANHA trailer. Was surprised that it was that noteworthy…the 3D just really POPPED, really stood out. I can not wait to see ALICE. Maybe Burton has decided to stop being terrible???
edit: ….this is going to be just like the introduction of color. Some people are going to misuse it very naively, phoning it in, slapping it on. And then some filmmakers and Depth Designers will become renowned for knowing wtf they are doing with 3D. Can’t wait for the good ones.
My friend Dylan, who has a profile on this site but has yet to attend the forum, said that he’ll be interested to see how 3D looks much later, and how 3D today will look naive and ill-thought out to future generations who will be thinking, “What, could they just not let go of 2D?” Not that 3D is the ultimate future of everything or that 2D will die, but certainly as another form it lends itself to new compositional considerations, which is what this thread is about I believe.
—PolarisDiB
“Avatar” is unworthy of being spoken of in the same breath with “Blade Runner.”
Roman, if I’m correct about that zoom move you’re talking about- a fast zoom in followed by a tight re-focusing- has become quite common in tv. It was used often in Battlestar Galactica. There, it was pretty cool in those close quarters and in fight scenes. I wonder how these things get started?
Cameron would do well to get over himself and hire a writer next time. His narrative is all fizz and no bottom. It evaporates even as the credits roll.
^That’s actually a good point. I have a lot of ideas for good movies, but I always want help in the writing of them because I need to make sure that they expand outside my own construct and have more meaning, reality, character, and effect on other people as well. Most directors can use the collaboration of filmmaking, the writing, the editing, etc. to make sure that their movies have a stronger substance. However, there are the rare filmmakers who come along who just cannot collaborate with others, and are best left alone to do their own thing.
—DiB
Alain Resnais, to put a name from the hat, has always worked with a writer. Cameron’s hubris looks even more foolish by comparison.
Even with the writer, not all of Alain Resnais’s work always worked out. I love Resnais but holy lord, was “Life is a Bed of Roses” a complete headache. Resnais’s ability to experiment is, of course, admirable, but I still kinda wished somebody had tapped him in the shoulder and said, “Uh, dude, none of this is even likeable.”
—PolarisDiB
I’m thinking that when/if I go see Avatar I will bring my iPod along pre-loaded with a variety of cinematic-quality electronica that I can listen to rather than suffer through the cheesy dialog and ham-handed story line. Just trip out on the visuals, I could care less whatever kind of message James Cameron is trying to send me.
I just hope the audio isn’t so loud that I have to blast my earbuds. I’m thinking some FSOL Lifeforms for the Pandora jungle scenes would be nice, and maybe run of the mill Chemical Brothers/Crystal Method big beat techno for the combat sequences.
@Dave: I consider doing that A LOT with movies. However, the movies I’ve gone to see have always kept my attention just enough to not bother. Maybe this one, maybe some other time, I typically have my iPod and headphones along with me.
—DiB
avatar = eye candy pocahontas
I’d cite “I Want To Go Home” as the headache. “La Vie est un roman” is wildly eccentric but works on its own terms, as a kind of Raymond Roussel musical.
“I’m thinking that when/if I go see Avatar I will bring my iPod along pre-loaded with a variety of cinematic-quality electronica that I can listen to rather than suffer through the cheesy dialog and ham-handed story line. Just trip out on the visuals, I could care less whatever kind of message James Cameron is trying to send me.”
This will go in my list of top 5 posts ever on the board. Brilliant! LOL!
Indeed this is a disappointing film experience to which I should have taken my iPod, it’s ridiculous to see how reality has infiltrated filmmaking, I mean, there’s nothing worng with criticizing your world, but please don’t turn cinema into a forum for political comments, it’s supposed to be a an escape po, not another place where you become hunted by the doubts and fears outside of the movie theater, I mean, of the two blockbusters I’ve seen ina film theater this year Avatar and Public Enemies both contained “allegories” to American policies… fortunately enough Europe still doesn’t feel that self-righteous
Wait, really? You’re criticizing it for not being escapist and actually being politically relevant?
Maud's Son
Just saw Avatar. I suggested to some other viewers that LOVED it that the movie, as it created a unprecedented believable computer alt. universe and people, would have benefited from less overbearing composition and more sounds of the forest, leaves, water, wind, animals(that aren’t roaring at character), so we could get more immersed in the world.
I also suggested that the native dance was taken from Baraka, and that there was a clear ripoff of City Lights in the dialogue.
Of course I was treated like an insane prick for even having an opinion, despite not arguing over it. Americans treat movies like they aren’t serious thus anyone who has even the slightest depth of knowledge is treated like a snob. Its just too funny because America DOMINATES the global movie industry, makes a ton a money, and can produce art as well. Yet somehow movie knowledge is connected with being a celebrity lover or something like this…. Don’t really know what but has anyone else noticed this?