“I’m personally much happier about people getting off on this movie than wallowing in that other ode to fascism.”
But isn’t fascism a major theme in the Batman comics? I used to read them religiously as a kid/early teen and I always imagined Batman (if indeed he did exist in reality) as a villain in sheep’s clothing, but he doesn’t realize he’s wearing it. When the Joker draws comparisons between himself and Batman, he’s not far from the truth. Bruce Wayne is a damaged soul and only through violence can he pacify himself in order to move through his various social circles and continue to put up the facade. It’s a wonderfully complex character that really raises questions about what defines a “hero”. Can good intentions make up for violent actions? I don’t know, I thought Nolan hit it right on the head with the Dark Knight (not so much with the previous entry IMO). It brought out the dilemmas that imagined as a child.
My problem with The Dark Knight, aside from the fact that much of events in the film are completely illogical, is that it very overtly seems to be justifying some very ugly approaches to coping social problems. It kind of reminds me of Hero that way. I also think that the problem with the movie, regardless of the source material, is that it isn’t very true. It seemed warped to me. It’s not that I wasn’t entertained by the movie, I just can’t understand why people love it the way they do.
Because the sight of wholesale destruction gives them a cheap thrill.
“My problem with The Dark Knight, aside from the fact that much of events in the film are completely illogical, is that it very overtly seems to be justifying some very ugly approaches to coping social problems.”
Why does that bother you? If that was the sole message of the movie, I’d undersand. But it’s primary function is to be an entertaining blockbuster, which it is.
Of course it is not the best film of all time, nowhere near the best film of all time and shouldn’t even be thought about when discussing the best films of all time, but it is a very entertaining movie.
I wish people would stop bothering about the “hidden agenda” of Hollywood blockbusters so much. Take a look on the imdb Avatar message board and all you will see are complaints about liberal propaganda. Are you really telling me that a blockbusters political subtext hinders you from enjoying it for what it is?
Almost every Hollywood blockbuster has a political subtext, why not get used to it?
During THE DARK KNIGHT, I wanted to be somewhere other than the theater (did consider leaving). I was bored and confused and stressed out rather than entertained. At AVATAR, I enjoyed myself.
But really, there are a lot of DARK KNIGHT threads on the forum from last year that are just a search away. Let’s talk more about AVATAR. Consciousness portalling is cool.
Fandorin, I think The Dark Knight is better than even you say, because I think it reaches down to the very depths of what makes man tick, and, in that, it reveals depths of humanity not usually seen in “just entertainment.”
Savvy
Re: FANDORIN-SAN
My sentiments exactly.
It is what it is. Entertainment, and very well done. I think I wrote on this, but sometimes one wants to go to the carnival and not the museum.
My point had nothing to do with comparing the themes or ideologies between “Avatar” and “The Dark Knight.” On the contrary, I do find Avatar’s themes timely and important, and the film succeeds in that regard. I was pointing out that the plot structure of “Avatar” is completely predictable and therefore loses suspense, whereas (although the plot is jumbled) “The Dark Knight” rarely allows the audience to get ahead of its destination.
I was surprised in todays current state of affairs to see them portray the Marines as the antagonists.
panem et circenses
@Zach: I agree it is deeper than your average superhero or even blockbuster film, but for me it will always remain a very well done entertainment film. Call me a snob, but I don’t think I could ever take a film about a vigilante in a bat costume completely serious :-)
“Take a look on the imdb Avatar message board and all you will see are complaints about liberal propaganda.”
And anyways shouldn’t the very people complaining about the liberal agenda be satisfied with the fact that AVATAR’s tie-in Happy Meals at McDonald’s are causing actual slash-and-burn destruction to the rainforest while its tie-in video game on the Playstation 3 is causing actual warfare in the African regions where that game platform’s “unobtainium” is mined from? Everyone wins! The movie is totally entertaining, and totally hypocritical, so the Message was really a moot point for me….the politics of our real modern world are SO much stranger than anything Cameron’s sci-fi mind could cook up
“AVATAR’s tie-in Happy Meals at McDonald’s are causing actual slash-and-burn destruction to the rainforest while its tie-in video game on the Playstation 3 is causing actual warfare in the African regions where that game platform’s “unobtainium” is mined from”
wait a minute: what?? are you being sarcastic?
I think that Avatar was a game-changer, and as such it deserves a lot more respect than the hating this forum has dished out for it. Love it or hate it, Cameron was able to pioneer some really fantastic technology that will move the ball forward in the realm of cinema for years to come.
Is it the best story? No. Did you expect a neo-heidegerian critique of our relationship to technology and the environment from a summer blockbuster that had to recoup a half billion budget? If so I think you need to serious reevaluate your logic.
Preaching to the choir always garners favoured results.
Nope.
A wingnut review. Written by a former Attorney General. An anti-abortion, crusading prosecutorial type.
“panem et circenses”
This is the slapdash, nitwit, retrograde “critique” of popular culture that just won’t die. When it’s proffered by someone with a brain – see for instance Adorno shitting on jazz and the pop music of his time (the eternal Tin Pan Alley tunes which have long outlived sour Adorno) – it may be excused as a genius’ (Adorno’s) astigmatism, a blind spot. But otherwise, most of the time, among ordinary folk, it’s a fuzzy substitute for acute perception of our culture.
I know that it warms & boosts up a cinephile struggling with his own feelings of inadequacy, to think that he’s holding the high-cultural fort while illiterate, susceptible mass-consumption monkeys are drawn to Cameron’s movie. But, really – the idea is far & away dumber, more simple-minded, than any moment in Avatar.
And I agree with Charlie Curran that the movie’s a game-changer, a technological milestone. I’ll say without shame that I loved every minute of it.
Alonso Díaz de la Vega
Ricky,
I agree with you up to a certain extent. It is true that we shouldn’t have hoped for a fine piece of art, but I just can’t sit down and watch cinema, as an art, crumbling and say, “Hey, mediocre is good enough”. There’s cheesy films like John Woo’s that are works of art. Maybe we are wrong, but in the end, I’ve never liked people who can do much more with something and just don’t, if Cameron hadn’t been so cocky he would have gotten a better writer than himself and the film would have been a masterpiece. Loved what you said about The Dark Knight though, another fantasy film obssessed with reality. And now that I mention that, let me repeat what I’ve said before about fantasy: it should mean escape, not the smell of reality smokin’ you out of the film theater, at least, not to me, for criticism of the American regime, I’ve got Syriana, Lord of War and Michael Clayton, braver films in many senses.