by far a Bergman person…substance>style…I do respect Godard and his body of work but for me Bergman personifies film for me
Also, while we’re discussing Godard, can anyone in R2 inform me as to why Artificial Eye’s Weekend disc is out of print. I desperately want a copy, but I don’t import movies.
Criterion will be releasing Weekend on BluRay soon.
“How sick can a thread get?”
sorry Ralch, Edwin’s right…
:-(
aawwhh
I shall share the bad news with my friend Slobodan Idontgiveafuckovich.
…
…
…
He says hi.
^ :)
haha! ekstra! i think ive met this slobodan you speak of.
About what? ^
How can people compare Godard and Bergman?
HOW SICK CAN A THREAD GET?
How can people compare Godard and Bergman?
Comparing Bergman and Godard is a 50-year-old exercise that a ton of great critics have participated in, as well as the two directors themselves. It has more history than Coke v. Pepsi.
I still consider them to be uncomparable.
You can compare Bergman and Bresson, Bergman and Dreyer, Bergman and De Oliveira, Bergman and Rivette, Bergman and Green, but you can’t compare Bergman and Godard.
If you do some research into the critical writings on the two (particularly from the 60s and 70s), you’ll see just how easily comparable they are.
“Comparing Bergman and Godard is a 50-year-old exercise that a ton of great critics have participated in, as well as the two directors themselves. It has more history than Coke v. Pepsi.”
and that’s a positive thing now?
not to mention it’s boring as hell….
I perfer Godard his movies have more vitality. More pressing, I perfer coke.
not to mention it’s boring as hell….
You wouldn’t know because you haven’t done the research. Stop being a poseur, Dimitrius.
“You wouldn’t know because you haven’t done the research. Stop being a poseur, Dimitrius.”
i can give you countless of director comparisons if you’d like to mister Westerner, do we really need another Bergman vs Godard or Tarkovsky vs Bresson bout, to prove what?
eternal recognition for both in the end?
why do they need it? they have gained it already!!!!
p.s. don’t you dare say again i haven’t done my research because you’ll have established my theory of modern critics = pieces of trash
how about Eric Rohmer VS Henry Jaglom
they both have an improvisational feel, both concern themselves with love and cinema and both are known to make talky pictures.
“Bergman vs Godard or Tarkovsky vs Bresson bout, to prove what?
eternal recognition for both in the end?
why do they need it? they have gained it already!!!!”
It’s not about recognition- it’s about studying and thinking about films and directors to gain greater insight into and understanding of their works.
For you, film criticism is no deeper than a popularity contest. That’s why you don’t read very much of it and have difficulty writing about or understanding films in any kind of critical/historical context. And your insecurity about your lack of understanding is the reason you spend most of your time posting repetitive generic and infantile statements like “modern critics = pieces of trash.” You’re in a constant state of an ignorant tantrum.
Why do you people like “Vs” threads?
“I personally prefer …. because… well… but that doesn’t mean … isn’t excellent too”
Uggh.
“For you, film criticism is no deeper than a popularity contest. That’s why you don’t read very much of it and have difficulty writing about or understanding films in any kind of critical/historical context. And your insecurity about your lack of understanding is the reason you spend most of your time posting repetitive generic and infantile statements like “modern critics = pieces of trash.” You’re in a constant state of an ignorant tantrum.”
learn about more countries and their cinematic culture, and then come back and say that again, now crawl back to your little “hyper-critical” hole.
“it’s about studying and thinking about films and directors to gain greater insight into and understanding of their works.”
constant repetition leads to academic bullshit and that occurs in plenty of arts and respective movements like with French impressionism, ancient Greek drama, Renaissance music blah blah blah and nothing new….please, stop being another absolutist and look further.
“and have difficulty writing about or understanding films in any kind of critical/historical context. "
you poor thing…if you only knew how much i know of history…you poor thing…
learn about more countries and their cinematic culture,
I have a lot to learn about many countries’ cinemas. The difference between you and I is that I don’t spout off in threads whose subject I know nothing about.
Again, the point of this thread is that Godard and Bergman aren’t immediately similar. To state you preference for one, and explain why, says much more about your tastes as a film viewer than preferring Preston Sturges to George Cukor. Sure, that second choice does reveal information about you, but not as much as answering Bergman or Godard, a pair of directors who’s styles are more or less diametrically opposed.
BTW, Gringo Tex, would you mind linking me to any interesting material that offers comparisons between both directors? I love Godard, but my knowledge of Bergman is pretty thin (only seen Seventh Seal, Wild Strawberries, Through A Glass Darkly and Winter Light) and I’m having a hard time seeing points of direct comparison in their narrative, cinematic style or handling of subject matter (or the subject matter dealt with, at that). I’m really quite interested in it, though.
…a pair of directors who’s styles are more or less diametrically opposed.
Setting one object in opposition to another leads to insight.
Tom:
http://www.amazon.com/Mindscreen-Bergman-First-Person-Archive-Scholarly/dp/1564784614/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1263752605&sr=8-1
http://www.amazon.com/Cahiers-Cin%C3%A9ma-1960-1968-Reevaluating-Hollywood/dp/0674090659/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1263752652&sr=1-1
http://www.amazon.com/Cahiers-Cin%C3%A9ma-Neo-Realism-Hollywood-Harvard/dp/0674090616/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1263752652&sr=1-2
http://www.amazon.com/Ingmar-Bergman-directs-Harvest-special/dp/0156443600/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1263752806&sr=1-1
There’s also a wealth of stuff in the old Sight & Sound issues, but you’ll probably have to access it in a good library.
I would take Welles and truffaut over bergman and godard.
I vouch for Godard……….
But when Bergman says Godard’s a bore i can’t help but laugh.:D
godard all the way
Bergman was great, but as much as I love and respect his work, I find that 4 of my least favorite films of his are his four most known ones: Wild Strawberries, Seventh Seal, Persona, and Cries and Whispers.
Anybody else feel similar about Bergman?
I love Wild Strawberries. Haven’t seen Persona (and in fact, a lot of his work).
Found Seventh Seal to be visually striking but otherwise completely “dead” (he he). Same for Cries and Whispers. Of his other films I have seen, I rate Autumn Sonata and Smiles of a Summer Night highly. Overall, I am at once respectful but somewhat lukewarm towards Bergman.
I’m absolutely in the Bergman camp.
With Godard, I don’t know. His films are stylistically beautiful and I tend to like what he’s trying to do, but I can never connect with them. It seems he’s exploring a lot of intellectual avenues that bear no connection to the actual human condition.
His storylines tend to be all over the place. I know, he’s not trying to tell good stories. He’s trying to symbolically espouse his intellectually progressive thought experiments. But he gets human nature wrong. He overthinks human motivations to the point that they’re unrecognizeable, and without any storylines, that leaves me with no real entry point to his films.
While I enjoy some of Godard’s films for their playfulness and beauty I do think he’s brutally overrated. Bergman put’s it bluntly and a bit harsh but I do agree with him that Godard doesn’t make films to move or entertain. Films like Alphaville and Band of Outsiders are quite a bore and doesn’t make me feel anything. Godard get’s to swept up in auteurism and pleasing critics. The emotional depth in Godard films are usually nearly non-existent. Thus he doesn’t really need great actors like Bergman but can rely on models to walk around and be pretty.
I’m pro emotional films and more critical towards “art films” just for the sake of pleasing critics.
Singing Mason
RE: http://bergmanorama.webs.com/godard_july58.htm
I don’t know if I’m ready to watch more Godard yet, but after that review I sure want to read more.