Is indifferent an option?
@ Blue K, Custodian of The Cinematheque…may I ask what was so horrible about The Dreamers?
Because the whole movie reeks of a “senile, out-of-touch snob trying to relive a time and place he never got to be a part of” feeling. The psycho-sexual games between Theo, Isabelle and Matthew came across as laughably pretentious and nothing more than a desperate attempt to inject some life into a pretty dull exercise in sentimental nostalgia (the use of “No, Je Regrette Rien” in the ending credits is grotesquely obvious and pretty much summarizes Bertolucci intentions). And the movie references, while fun, become pretty tiring and the use of clip insertions really does the film no favors: why watch these pouty, annoying supermodel-looking actors run through the Louvre when its been done before?
Can’t blame them for being modelish like, and this is not the centre of the movie…whatever them. It shows, yes indeed, place where Bertolucci wanted to be, nostalgia is no crime. And this repete encore un fois moments from the movie, if looking from an artist view, where each gets his inspiration and motivation from somewhere eventually, and gets to replicate them in a personalised mode the entire career forward going….these moments should be seen as mini-tributes for those who made beauty happen before he could it, he shows that what was said before doesn’t get lost by the time passes.
its interesting to me how people get so worked up about “the dreamers”. almost like it offends their honor as moviegoers or something. like bertolucci committed a sin with this film. i like it. it doesnt strike me so harshly in an unfavorable way.
Meandra Mela: Nice summary – I too enjoyed The Dreamers for what it was.
Meandra Mela, your analysis of the “repete encore un fois moments” definitely gives the movie more depth and makes me think twice about it. My main trouble with The Dreamers is that it tries to capture a time and place that I (and a lot of other people) hold totally sacred. So to watch someone try to visualize this period with such lack of subtlety ended up leaving a bad taste in my mouth. I commend Bertolucci for his sincerity, but I simply found the movie not to my liking. I will say that I am thankful for the film for its introduction of actress Eva Green, who I have decided may well be the most beautiful woman in the world.
I too am glad to see Bertolucci fans waxing so eloquent here.
I will just repeat what I have written elsewhere.
The Conformist is a genuine masterpiece of modern cinema.
As everyone here knows, many of the young filmmakers involved in early 1970s Hollywood renaissance
were influenced and inspired by this production.
That’s “production,” as opposed to “film,” because The Conformist is that rare motion picture in which design (Ferdinando Scarfiotti), cinematography (Vittorio Storaro), and brilliant editing
both guide and explicate the narrative,
rather than merely provide a platform on which the plot follows its trajectory.
That had been accomplished before 1970, of course;
The Passion of Joan of Arc, Citizen Kane,
and the best films of Joseph Von Sternberg, Jean Cocteau, or Michael Powell come to mind.
But something about Bertolucci’s sensual, decadent approach,
by which almost every frame of this picture overwhelms viewers with detail, symbology, and visual splendor, conveys the notion that a new kind of cinema has arrived.
It’s not a leap to suggest that Days of Heaven, The Godfather, or Chinatown
look and feel like they do partly because Bertolucci revived the idea
that a motion picture can be a life event, a kind of sensory experience
that is forever after recalled as an adventure of the spirit:
It was only a movie, but something else took place as we gazed at the screen.
This picture also defies categorization.
Based on Alberto Moravia’s novel, and shattering as it does any chronological plot lines,
the film can at any given moment appear to be Marxist cinema,
a Freudian dreamscape, or an inordinately lush international thriller designed as a period piece.
Symbolism veers toward hyperbole, with Plato’s allegory of the cave figuring prominently,
even as a series of images and events at least suggest that Art Deco
is an inevitable aesthetic manifestation of fascism,
or that the desire to vanish into the blind conformity of fascist Italy has an analog in sexual repression. Sometimes it seems that much of that subtext is converted into guilt
and then loaded onto the shoulders of a single character,
so effective is Jean-Louis Trintignant at conveying a tortured soul.
It’s tough going, if you have a heart, but magnificent viewing if you have eyes.
A victim and perpetrator of missteps throughout his career?
No more or less so than John Ford, Orson Welles, or John Huston.
The ruble with “The Dreamers” is that Bertolucci won’t let Louis get it on with Michel Pitt — the way the characters did in the book.
Both would surely have been up to the task.
What I have seen so far of his hasn’t intrigued me much; The Dreamers, Stealing Beauty, Last Tango in Paris and 1/2 La Luna. (I only watched half of La Luna because I had it mixed up with La voce della luna, and got very disappointed when Roberto Benigni never showed up.)
But I do expect great things from his other movies and I cant wait to see for instance Il Conformista.
I am also prepared to give both La Luna and Last Tango in Paris another chance, maybe they/me have grown.
And along everything that describes The Dreamers, my favorite part is that it has that young breeze taste, that freedom, naive state, just the fact that they found each over…their beyond words relation at some point…I just realised Bertolucci has something about this kind of attractions, personal motiv that can be found in many of his movies,, a sick beautiful love kingdom
He’s just a perverted old socialist.
Love him. Especially Before the Revolution, Partner, The Conformist, The Spider’s Strategem, The Sheltering Sky, and Beseiged.
When did “socialist” become a bad word? Also, what’s wrong with being old?
Old people are lame.
When did socialist become a bad word? Since its inception. Socialism advocates totalitarianism. The triumph of the ‘people’ over the individual.
Anyway, Bertolucci is boring, and he screwed up The Last Emperor by having his chinese actors speak with broken english. I mean, if it is to be in English, fine, whatever, but broken Engrish? LAME.
He is interesting visually, but he is perverted and out of touch.
Socialism is all about the people and the individual but yes, in practical use it ends up being a totalitarian system as its idealistic zeal is often crippled by human nature. Still as an ideology, it isn’t terrible and those who allign themselves with socialism are hardly fascists.
Also, what’s up with the racist reference?
“I mean, if it is to be in English, fine, whatever, but broken Engrish?”
Socialism works well for monks.
No racism, but its almost like Bertolucci went out to find actors who either could not speak English well, or he instructed them to speak poorly. If the financiers demanded that it must be in English, then he should have at least found people who could speak it, and not made a mockery of the actors.
If saying ‘engrish’ is racist, then please report me to the PC police. I will be so glad when you socialists take over and tell everyone how to speak and live their lives.
Yes, as a Chinese, I find “Engrish” racist for almost every Chinese person I know can pronounce ‘l’.
Jason certainry confused Chinese and Japanese… ;)
Apursansar, thats racist!
Its a tough world out there Law.
Maybe its the Japanese who can’t pronounce the ’L’s as well.
Either way, you can not tell me that good english was spoken in The Last Emperor.
Call it what you want, but the men who played Pu Yi clashed with most of the other actors.
The real Pu Yi also clashed with most of the Chinese, it was therefore a good choice. ;)
Apu, I am fery sory for alles zi times I mocked zi Deutschen accent. Vill you forgive me?
Fantastic filmmaker, one of my favourites. La Commare Secca, Before The Revolution, The Spider’s Stratagem, The Conformist, Last Tango in Paris, 1900, Tragedy of a Ridiculous Man, The Last Emperor, and Besieged are all wonderful.
I mean, paid hommage zu, of course… No one speaks English like Werner.
Tell me, Jason, what is it that constitues ‘perverted’ for you?
Ich yes claro te perdono. No problemo, por supuesto.
Polyglots are cool.
I need to see Before the Revolution and Spider Stratagem again, but I did not care much for them. However, The Conformist is one of the greats, and Last Tango is extremely good. I am also fond of The Sheltering Sky and, despite its flaws, The Last Emperor.
Jackford, when half of you body of work is not just about sex, but strange ways to have sex; I think there could be a problem.
I recognize that sex is a very important part of life, and for some more important than others; and I can appreciate that being approach in the cinematic art form, but Bertolucci seems obsessed by it.
A perversion, is anything that is unnatural. When you make so many films about people who can’t maintain a normal sexual relationship, it could be questioned as to whether or not the director is a pervert.