@Roscoe – I don’t really remember specifically why I didn’t like The Seventh Seal other than that I was completely confused and disinterested in what was going on. I saw it six or seven years ago in a film class and it just completely went over my head. Keep in mind though, this was one of the first film classes I had taken and since then, I have not only graduated from film school (yes, they gave me a diploma even though I hated The Seventh Seal), but have also seen lots of films that maybe will make me appreciate Bergman more. But I’m hesitant to revisit The Seventh Seal until I’ve seen some of his other films first.
I was hoping to get some consensus here but I guess I was a bit naive in assuming there’d be one standout obvious film that everyone would recommend!
@Alidor – I’m a firm believer too in not judging a director by one film however this has been sort of standard protocal for all the masters I’m “supposed to like.” I saw Seven Samarai and was turned off by Kurasawa so I haven’t seen any other films. I saw Jules and Jim and was turned off by Truffaut so I haven’t seen any other of his films. I saw La Dolce Vita, didn’t mind it but then couldn’t get through 20 minutes of 8 1/2 and have since not seen any of Fellini’s other films.
I know I need to see these filmmakers’ other films and I am actually confident that someday I’ll appreciate Seven Samarai, Jules and Jim, etc. But for whatever reason, I don’t know if that time is now (my main issue with Kurasawa is length – I have a hard time with any film being over two or two and a half hours). Having said all this, I’m going to see The 400 Blows in the theater this weekend and hopefully that’ll turn out well! hahah
I’ve only seen two: The Seventh Seal (which like you I saw first and just couldn’t get into) then I saw Wild Strawberries which I thought was absolutely wonderful. I have a tendancy to veer towards the mainstream so maybe check out Wild Strawberries.
EDIT – Just read your last post. If I were you I’d also check out Yojimbo for Kurosawa and 400 Blows for Truffaut. (Again I’ve only seen Jules et Jim and didn’t like it then saw 400 Blows and loved it. Seven Samurai isn’t one of my favourite Kurosawa’s but I have seen them all. Yojimbo is much more accessible).
Rumplesink – I want a Cliff Notes version of Kurasawa! (lol – I know that’ll offend and piss off a lot of people). Why do movies have to be so long? Even The Godfather, which is my favorite film of all time, I have a hard time sitting all the way through. I think I just feel like I’m being lazy when I sit on my couch for four hours straight.
Robert Plant said something interesting on Charlie Rose a while back. He said he thought songs should only be 3 minutes long – that a musician should get in and out and be able to tell their story in a short amount of time. How ironic is that, coming from the guy who’s songs from Led Zeppelin averaged over ten minutes each? But I didn’t take his explanation as hypocritical; only that he’d been there and done that and as an older artist, felt he’d learned something.
Having said that, I think he’s wrong. I wouldn’t be interested in listening to a three minute version of Stairway to Heaven.
Seven Samurai is a bit slow for your first Kurosawa, I lucked out in having two three hour bus rides to watch it. I would recomend starting with Yojimbo which is much more light hearted. Also for Bergman I will once again state that Virgin Spring is the easiest to start with.
@Rumplesink: I agree on Yojimbo as more accessible. To me it felt a little less “epic,” and more contained. (Although Seven Samurai was my first Kurosawa and I loved it. Go figure.)
@Fredo: You’re not alone. All of those films are admittedly “chunky.” What you need to remember is that even if you don’t like something now, there’s no telling whether in 10 years (10 years is a long time) you might be in a different place in your life and can approach the same piece with a different mindset. Maybe not. And if that’s the case, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with you.
You don’t HAVE to like anything that anyone else says. Keep educating yourself, don’t lose the curiosity and the hunger, but go with what floats your boat. Otherwise, it will kill your interest in film.
I think you’ll get a kick out of Yojimbo. The music is awesome.
@Alidor – Oh, I’m a boat floater, no doubt. I have no qualms about disliking a film everyone is supposed to like. And I agree that even if I don’t like a film now, I may in ten years. When I first saw Raging Bull and Eyes Wide Shut I didn’t like them. But after viewing them again years later, I’ve come to not only appreciate them but really like them.
If you want to see where it began, you might try SUMMER INTERLUDE (Illicit Interlude).
The song “The Seventh Seal” by Scott Walker.
I loved the song so much it made me see (and appreciate) the movie, at some sort of knifepoint.
@Fredo – Incidentally, Yojimbo is 110mins and Wild Strawberries is only 91mins! :o)
Ooooh, I like 90min movies!
Personally, The Seventh Seal is my least favorite Bergman film. It wasn’t the first, but it was the first one I didn’t care for. I’d say that for me, Bergman’s trilogy of Through The Glass Darkly, Winter Light (my favorite Bergman), and The Silence was sort of the entry point for me where I really started to appreciate Bergman, and that’s sort of where the love began for me.
What I’ve started doing is taking directors where I’ve had mixed emotions and try giving three of their other films a chance, and sort of see who I want to ivestigate further based on that. With Bergman though, I’d pace myself. His films tend to be a bit on the bleak side, so I wouldn’t watch many back-to-back, even though I enjoy his work.
If I had to recommend one film to try and get someone into Bergman, I’d probably go with Through The Glass Darkly myself, but outside of the trilogy, Autumn Sonata might be a good one to start with. (I’d recommend Scenes From A Marriage or Fanny and Alexander, but they’re a bit on the long side, so they might not be good ones to start with).
The Seventh Seal is pretty much the obvious choice. It was the first Berman film I ever seen. I can still remember renting the original Criterion release from a Hollywood Video when I was in High School. It was when my interest in classic film began and Seal was the first real foreign language film I remember watching (maybe Crouching Tiger was first I don’t really remember too well).
Though it makes perfect sense to begin with The Seventh Seal. In terms of style and narrative the film is very simple. The films themes involve death in a Godless world, and yet it is treated with a mixture of seriousness and humor. It is one of the few films where the visual iconography has transcended its source and has been adopted by the popular culture (example: Bill and Ted’s Bogus Journey).
The next most popular Bergman film people watch probably Persona, though many people would probably be overwhelmed by its style. Plus a viewer watching Persona without any knowledge of Bergman’s past works, especially the Silence trilogy may not notice many of the reoccurring themes and symbolism.
Martin Scorsese saw Smiles of a Summer Night when he was 14. Not a bad place to start.
Thanks for all your suggestions, everyone. I rented The Virgin Spring and at the very least didn’t hate it the way I hated The Seventh Seal. The story is pretty straightforward so there was no confusion factor. But overall, not really a film I have much to say about. Like my recent assessment of The 400 Blows, I thought the film was much ado about nothing. I know it may not be considered Bergman’s masterpiece but I was still underwhelmed by it.
I think it may be the fact that religion and religious overtones in films don’t have much resonance with me. As well, I prefer realism over symbolism and while I get what Bergman is doing (in much the same way what Kubrick was interested in with heightened realism), it seems very distant and it’s hard for me to get into because it’s so mannered and controlled. It’s like the complete opposite of a John Cassavetes film; which is fine, I’m not saying all films have be that and with Kubrick films, I love it. But with Bergman, it’s just difficult for me to get invested.
But maybe someday I’ll grow up and see the light.
Hmm, I’m not really sure most of the ones mentioned so far are very good suggestions for Bergman first-timers. Seventh Seal is pretty intense as far as Bergman’s common religious themes, so that isn’t the best place to start.
Winter Light is my personal favourite and would probably be a pretty good place to begin, but the best would be Fanny and Alexander and Hour of the Wolf. Shame would be a good one too.
Ive actually never seen Seventh Seal but would echo the Wild Strawberries suggestions followed by Persona.
am I only one, who would say, straight into ‘Persona’
“am I only one, who would say, straight into ‘Persona’”
No, you’re not. Bergman’s best film in my humble opinion.
Persona & Wild Strawberries. I also like a lot of Bergman’s early simpler films.
Bergman’s films could be categorized into two categories—the first dealing with metaphysical and religious notions and the latter dealing with interpersonal relationships.
To Alidor:
If you’re just discovering a director, I’d agree with you that going in a chronological fashion isn’t a bad approach for obvious reasons. But since there are so many Bergman films available—I mean, who can watch 63 films from just one director in this day and age?—maybe I’d start with either Sawdust and Tinsel or Smiles of a Summer Night and then work chronologically through what are considered his major works. Even then you’ll end up watching around 20 films…
To Fredo:
Since you said you prefer realism over symbolism, I wouldn’t suggest anything like Persona or any of the Silence trilogy films. It’s not that they aren’t necessarily good films—even though I personally have some issues with Persona—but you’re bound to run into the same types of themes in them.
I’d go with his domestic dramas if I were you. Fanny and Alexander is good, very accessible, warm, and even quite funny at times. But I think Scenes from a Marriage would be right up your alley. It’s perhaps the most naturalistic of Bergman’s films, and it is a film solidly ground in the here and the now. It deals with issues that anyone in a committed relationship has had to deal with.
on a slightly unrelated topic… i found this to be quite funny. what if ingmar bergman directed a coca cola commercial?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXGFo2WI2aw
Here’s my 2 cent opinion. Everyone has different reasons for their suggestions. None of which might apply to you. I suggest you go to your library or video store and borrow/rent whatever is the cheapest. You can start with any of his films. Give 3 of them a try. If you don’t like any of them, give up on Bergman. If you like one of them, chances are you’ll like more, but asking people what they recommend will only confuse you. Asking 10 people 1 question, usually ends up with 10 answers. In this case, none of them are wrong. Just a lot of confusion.
On an unrelated Bergman note, I just received my copy of The Seventh Seal in the mail today. I absolutely can’t wait to see it and the Bergman doc included.
any bergman experts out there have thoughts on “the serpent’s egg”? i just saw it for the first time tonight. it was awkward at first, then interestingly mysterious. finally it seems to be something that sneaks up on you with different layers of meaning and connections within the film. im not even close to a bergman expert, but i understand that this film isnt regarded very highly within his canon. my reaction is that if so, maybe its really better than given credit for.
I too would recommend Virgin Spring. A comparitively straight forward tale. Watch it once on its own and then watch it again with the commentary by Birgitta Steene. I would then move on to the beautifully realized Wild Strawberries and do the same. Criterion usually has interesting and educational commentaries by film experts.
god i really hate fredo
Wild Strawberries
The Serpent’s Egg
Autumn Sonata
First of all,“The Seventh Seal” was the first Bergman I saw,and I love it immediately.It stayed as my favorite Bergman for a long time.If things were different,“The Sevent Seal” would be the one I will suggest to see first,not only because it was a great introduction to Bergman’s work for me,but also because it is one of his most accesible and trademark films.
Now that “The Seventh Seal” didn’t work for you,I have to make a different suggestion.Another one that could work as an introduction is “The Virgin Spring”,which is also a straightforward film,but I think it has things in common with “The Seventh Seal”,so maybe it’s not appropriate for you.So I came to the conclusion that the one for you is “Wild Strawberries”.Not that realistic,it features some dream sequences and many flashbacks(I really love the sense of time in this film),but it is a sweet film(of course,“sweet” may not be the right work for a Bergman film…) and not to hard to follow.That’s why I wouldn’t suggest “Persona”.Although “Pesona” is possibly my favorite and,in my opinion,his “magnum opus”,it’s no way the film to start with.I think it is a little bit confusing and much of a trippy film.If you were confused with “The Seventh Seal”,this one will blow your mind out,really.
So,apart from “Wild Strawberries”,my suggestions is “Fanny and Alexander”.Also I suggest you to stay away from the “Faith Trilogy” for now.
Personally, I find his early works and later works have very different styles. I much prefer his later works because I tend to gear towards to more obviously intense films versus subtle ones in a way (I don’t know if I’m making any sense…). I don’t know which film would be the best one to start off with. My first Bergman was Wild Strawberries, and then The Seventh Seal if I remember correctly. However, my favourites of his are Fanny and Alexandre, Scenes from a Marriage, Cries and Whispers, and Persona.
Alidor
Would anyone say that there is merit in watching them in the order that they were made? The evolution of Bergman as an artist goes hand in hand with his evolution as a person, I would think (and I offer this as a complete Bergman NON-expert). This, of course, might only be of value if you’re a fervent believer (like I am) in the notion that you shouldn’t give up on a director just from watching one of her/his films. So if you’re committed to getting to know the body of work of a particular director, like Bergman, who you feel in your bones you should get to know (if only “just because”), I would probably like to start at the beginning.