wow, you’re deep
just kidding. your point?
His point is that if the actions some of these characters did was listed we would be appalled. These characters are so well written and so well acted that we truly feel for them despite their many flaws. It is something I am always impressed with in a movie and sometimes it is done so well that when they do something wrong it actually hurts a bit for me. In a way I feel betrayed by these people’s actions. In a similar way I would feel if a friend or family member let me down by lieing or stealing.
Jack Carter (M. Caine).
Dixon Steele (H. Bogart)
Harry Powell (R. Mitchum)
Francie Brady (E. Owens)
Bree Daniel (J. Fonda)
And yes, Biberkophf too (H. Baer)
But there are hundreds, perhaps thousands of them. Why do we bother with these exercises? I mean, why aren’t we looking at movies rather than talking about them?
Alessandro (L. Castel)
The experience of viewing a film is so much greater when you have thought about it and discussed it. We are looking at movies as we talk about them. If we just watched movies non stop and never stopped to wonder about them, then the film going experience would not be as fulfilling.
I think Rich was simply pointing out that he started a thread with just a list. no thoughts or his own insights into his choosings provided.
Justin: What a fantastic list!. I’m right there with you with Franz Biberkopf.
Kim Novak in Vertigo
the cynical sister in Sisters of the Gion
Bette Davis in Beyond the Forest (i grew up in a small town — i know just how she feels!)
Bruno in Strangers on a Train
Susan Kohner in Imitation of Life
Marlene Dietrich’s character in Devil is a Woman
Joan Bennett in The Reckless Moment
Claude Rains in Notorious
Peter Lorre in M
All the characters and pseudonyms on this site. Oh, I’m sorry – were we talkng about film characters?
-Helen Wright (Joan Crawford) in Humoresque – she loved him (Garfield), but couldn’t have him – poor thing!
-Norman Maine (James Mason) in A Star is Born – everyone love’s a noble drunk
-Nicholas (James Mason again) in The Seventh Veil – artists always demand the highest level
-Norman Bates (Anthony Perkins) in Psycho – you have to feel for a ’mama’s boy’
-Alexander Hellenius (Claude Rains) in Deception – geniuses should be able to do whatever they want
-Dr. Jekyll (Spencer Tracey) in Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde – loved him as Mr. Hyde, but Jekyll was kind of dull
-Uncle Billy (Thomas Mitchell) in It’s a Wonderful Life – sure he lost the money, but he didn’t mean to
-Glen or Glenda (Ed Wood) – who doesn’t think a guy who wants to wear his wife’s cashmere sweater isn’t lovable?
-HAL in 2001 – when good computers go bad…And his flaws? All too human!
I think this topic exists because of a discussion we had about Jules et Jim (et Catherine) on another thread. It’s a great idea.
- Tony Soprano
- most of the crooks from The Wire, expecially Omar
- Poppy
- of course Antoine Doinel
- Ethan Edwards
- Darth Vader (um, well …)
- The Man in Murnaus’s Sunrise
These are great lists. Thanks for responding. I was trying to get a handle on how, like Drew says, films expand our sense of empathy. They teach me to understand and even forgive human frailty. I don’t think it’s ever quite as simple as “good guy”/“bad guy,” or it shouldn’t be that simple.
Yeah I always hate when people say they didn’t like a movie because the characters were “unlikable” or whatever. My favorite would have to be Daniel Plainview. He’s a bastard but you can’t help but watch everything he does and be entertained.
Orson Welles as Harry Lime
Gene Hackman as Royal Tenenbaum
Matthew Broderick as Ferris Bueller
Al Pacino as Sonny in Dog Day Afternoon
John Travolta as Vincent Vega
Tom Hanks as Michael Sullivan in Road to Perdition
Bette Davisas Margo Channing
Humphrey Bogart as Roy Earle in High Sierra
Butch and Sundance
Justin: As Terence said: “Nothing human is alien to me.” This is a philosphy all artists should embrace. We are all shades of good and bad, which exist as relative terms. They are not mutually exclusive. In every sinner lurks a saint, in every saint there is definitely a sinner just waiting to get out. The best film characters are multi-dimensional, never black and white. All the films we love and the characters in them too, must be drawn human to be believeable. There can be no true villains or heroes, unless they are drawn with complex personalities, motives, and desires. Life is never simple nor should film characters be. Who are the good guys and bad guys in Casablanca (not talkng about the nazis here, but Claude Rains, Sidney Greenstreet, Peter Lorre, et. al.)? Was Lawrence in Lawrence of Arabia a saint or a sinner – or both? All the best actors and actresses could play either the good person or bad, because they can make the character ‘true’ and ‘real’ for us. Great call Soybean on Harry Lime – one of the best examples of this you could possibly think of in this context.
Very well said, Bob. And High Sierra is also a good call, Soybean.
Kym – Rachel Getting Married (“Who do I have to be now?” That question destroys me everytime, just a masterful performance).
Zampano – La Strada (if only for the final scenes)
Iwao – Vengeance is Mine (he is such a cool character, despite everything else (and there is A LOT else))
Chow Mo-wan – 2046 (somewhat less in In the Mood for Love) (He’s such a mean human being, but I love him)
Mouchette – Mouchette (ahhh… she’s such a desperate little girl)
Tommy – Goodfellas (just an amazing character… just amazing)
Xiao Wu – Xiao Wu (I could watch this character do almost anything, whether he’s stealing or not)
among others…
I don’t know if all of these are deeply flawed, but all intrigue me to almost no end.
Justin: Thanks. When I was thinking about Terence and then what I wrote, I must admit that I was also thinking about all the ‘characters’ on this site – myself included – relative to your thread. We may have our flaws, how ‘deeply’ I’ll leave to everyone to decide, but at least were not IMDbers. Hence, we can be loveable – sometimes – unless we are disagreeing.
How about that rogue Alfie as so brilliantly played by Michael Caine?
Those two kind old ladies in Arsenic and Old Lace?
Bonny & Clyde
The Beast in Beauty and the Beast
Jon Voight in Desert Bloom
Ratso Rizzo (Dustin Hoffman) in Midnight Cowboy
Maurice Ronet as Alain in Le Fou Follet
Morbius in Forbidden Planet
Mrs Robinson in The Graduate
The two girls in Heavenly Creatures
Volonte as the police inspector in Investigation of a Citizen Above Suspicion
Alec Guinness as the ‘professor’ in Ladykillers
Angela Lansbury as the mother in World of Henry Orient
James Mason as Humbert in Lolita
Monty Woolley as Sheridan Whiteside in The Man Who Came to Dinner
Giancarlo Giannini in Seven Beauties
What a fun topic, Justin!
Hitler in Triumph of the Will. Not really.
Oskar and Eli in Let the Right One In, but that’s just the movie I happen to be thinking of at this time.
isn’t almost any character worth a damn deeply flawed? with exceptions to representations of innocence.
[Whoa – not Charles Foster Kane—I don’t think there’s one thing about that character I love. Welles was incredibly – seminally – bold to play that part as written, all ego and all scoundrel, only with eyes for his objective and not for anything else.]
Charles Bukowski, in both his movie incarnations: via Mickey Rourke in Barfly (everyone in that film was sympathetic, actually), and via Matt Dillon in Factotum.
Every character played by Klaus Kinski. Even villainous, murderous, he came across as “god’s own fool,” an Oedipus-like character to be pitied by the absent Chorus…
Freddie Mays (played by David Thewlis) in Gangster No. 1.
Vincent D’Onofrio in a number of films: he played a rabid priest in Forsyth’s Being Human; the alien impersonator in Men In Black; and of course Pvt. Pyle in Full Metal Jacket.
Saul Rubinek, ostensibly playing a scumbag opportunist in both True Romance and in Unforgiven. Also, certainly Richard Harris in the latter as English Bob.
Eddie Marsan as the absolute asshole driving instructor in Happy-Go-Lucky. (Has Mike Leigh, an arch humanist, ever depicted a truly unsympathetic/inhuman character?)
The great Bobby Peru from Lynch’s Wild at Heart.
Bob, wish I’d been the first to think of Giannini in Seven Beauties!
@Great thread!
It’s the society, dammit! Although their characters are flawed, and their morals questionable, I still like these fellas…
ISAAC DAVIS (Woody Allen) in Manhattan – the ending proved he’s truly a wanker!
SKIP McCOY (Richard Widmark) in Pickup on South Street – he ain’t that bad, he got ‘em commies.
FLYBOY (David Emgee) in Dawn of the Dead – he should have stayed in the rooftop and left the spoils to the biker gang, but he’s right- they earned that shopping mall.
JULIE KOHLER (Jeanne Moreau) in The Bride Wore Black – she’s one hell of a black widow indeed.
FRANK CHAMBERS (John Garfield) in The Postman Always Rings Twice – with Lana Turner on the plate, it’s hard to blame the guy.
TSURUCHIYO NIIRO (Toshiro Mifune) in Samurai Assassin
WOYZECK/ NOSFERATU/ FITZCARRALDO (Klaus Kinski) in Woyzeck, Nosferatu and Fitzcarraldo
CAPT. WILLARD (Martin Sheen) in Apocalypse Now – He’s not at fault for that fatal incident in the river- he told ‘em bloody sailors not to stop. In the end, he accomplished what he’d been sent to do, and that’s all that mattered.
FRANK MACHIN (Richard Harris) in This Sporting Life
CHUCK TATUM (Kirk Douglas) in Ace in the Hole – a real opportunist, he would’ve thrived in the present day no sweat.
MARIO (Yves Montadt) in Wages of Fear – he took a gamble and succeded…
PHYLLIS DIETRICHSON (Barbara Stanwyck) in Double Indemnity
JACK CARTER (Michael Caine) in Get Carter
JAKE HOLMAN (Steve McQueen) in Sand Pebbles
VARLA (Tura Satana) in Faster, Pussycat! Kill, Kill! – She’s bad. Holy shit!
CHRISTOPHER CROSS (Edward G. Robinson) in Scarlet Street – poor, poor bastard.
PAUL KERSEY (Charles Bronson) in Death Wish I/ II – in the age of the sensitive emo-male pussy candyasses, blokes like Kersey can’t be too bad to have around.
HAYDEE (Haydee Pollitoff) in La Collectionneuse – the rabbit-face really knows how to spin ‘em on her fingers.
TRAVIS BICKLE (Robert De Niro) Taxi Driver – Classic study. Despite his flaws, I can’t help but be fascinated by this character. Sadly, everytime I come home on leave, I’ve been running to these type of men much frequently- expendables from a never ending war, hard, bitter, angry and scarred (not just mentally, I’m talkin’ about Elephant Man-cases here). Plenty of materials for a remake, unfortunately.
Noel, you are so right, Kinski is a master at humanizing dark characters.
Haha. Max Fisher.
I’ll add
Steve Zizzou: at least he’s making an effort to do the right things
Tajomaru (from Rashomon): the brash bandit kills and rapes but still is viewed as honorable in one recollection and a victim in another
I miss Justin Biberkopf.
Matteo from The Best of Youth!
Justin Biberkopf
Franz Biberkopf
Petra von Kant
Jules, Jim and Catherine
Charles Foster Kane
Tippi Hedren in Marnie
Marion Crane
Futaki in Satantango
Jean Gabin in La Bete Humaine
Dorothy Malone and Robert Stack in Written on the Wind
Lauren Bacall in The Big Sleep
Keechie and Bowie in They Live by Night
Cagney in Public Enemy and White Heat
Richard Widmark in Pickup on South Street
Arlene Dahl in Slightly Scarlet
Barbara Stanwyck in Forty Guns
Belmondo and Seberg in Breathless
Geraldine Page in Sweet Bird of Youth
Gondo in High and Low
Chris Penn in The Funeral
The bad lieutenant
Gertrud
Anna Karina in Pierrot le Fou
Alex in A Clockwork Orange
The logger in The Bed You Sleep In
Jake LaMotta
Francis Bacon in Love is the Devil
Ludavine Sagnier in Swimming Pool
Rollergirl and Amber Waves in Boogie Nights
Julianne Moore in Magnolia
William H. Macy in Fargo
Plainview in There Will Be Blood
Lola Montez