yeah, i agree that its post-noir and that it turns noir conventions inside out. and constance is a sort of femme fatale, but not a very strong example of one. being a very good soul at heart arguably disqualifies one from being a femme fatale! yes, the ending is very ambivalent. maybe not catastrophic, but dark, true.
I wasn’t even thinking of Constance being the femme fatale…I was thinking more of the pedophile who has her fall in love with him. You’re all right about the cinematic style…it verges on television sitcom of the period image wise. However, and I’d have to go back and watch it…but I seem to remember some off kilter shots several times during the movie.
One way to look at it, as opposed to post-noir it might be looked at as some sort of natural progression thematically.
Samuel Fuller was some kind of wonder. The direction, the composition, etc., was just wonderful. The acting was that penny-dreadful over-the-top stuff. Nonetheless, it’s a knockout punch.
I was recently asked for some examples of classic film noir movies that take place in South America, i.e. Gilda. Any suggestions?
A big chunk of Hitchcock’s Notorious takes place in Brazil and a big chunk of Lupino’s The Hitch Hiker is in Mexico. And while not a part of the classic noir canon, but just as good and a nice take on contemporary noir is Bielinsky’s Argentinian Nine Queens.
I’m surprised there hasn’t been more commentary on Ulmer’s ur-noir Detour. Love the description of Ann Savage above: “little dark bruise that keeps on spreading.”
another mexican noir is anthony mann’s “border incident”. not quite south america, but i can’t think of anything right now.
what can one say about “detour”? its brilliant! a no-budget gem, and one of those defining moments of noir. a film no serious student of noir can do without seeing.
I sometimes think of “Detour” as cinema’s finest hour, because that’s about how long it last. There aren’t many short features that are so tight, so compact, and which hit you so hard. A B-movie that was probably a good deal more memorable than whatever the A-movie was.
ok. another question.
what classic films noir do more people need to know about, and why?
I think Joe Lewis’ The Big Combo is an overlooked nasty little jewel of a noir. John Alton’s photography create a dark shadowy world that could be something of a primer for noir photography. It’s a perverse story what with Richard Conte going down on Jean Wallace (something of a first for classic noir) and the overtly homosexual relationship between Lee Van Cleef and Earl Holliman, among other things. While the production takes place relatively late in the noir cycle, it still stays well within the classic tradition while surprisingly modern when it comes to dealing with sexual themes.
i’d love to see anthony mann’s “t-men” get more attention. its my favorite of the semi-documentary noirs. the visual style of the film is very exciting and interesting (another nod to alton), and it has some great performances by a host of recognizable noir bit players.
Raw Deal is my favorite Anthony Mann.
“raw deal” is one of the greatest moody and atmospheric noir pieces. along with “the asphalt jungle”.
I’m ashamed to admit I’ve never seen T-Men. Anyone aware of a decent DVD transfer of it?
Speaking of Anthony Mann….I’m partial to his goofy Strange Impersonation. It reminds me of Detour in its improbably sequence of events. But, notwithstanding that, its core noir themes of identity loss and betrayal still work…which perhaps may be due to Mann’s direction. Of course, the whole thing is ruined by a cowardly, idiotic ending…I don’t disclose it so as not to spoil it. But the ending ruins what is otherwise not a bad cheapie noir.
I’ll have to agree with ILIVEINFEAR and put “Rififi” at the top of my list. A flawless film (save for the inclusion of the title song midway through).
“rififi” isn’t classic film noir. its a french crime film, like melville’s work, even though it was made by an american director. and that title song in the middle of the film is great! i dont think its a weak point at all.
“t-men” exists in a great dvd print. nothing obscure or hard to find. you should be able to order it anywhere from your usual sources.
Rififi without a doubt.
“murder by contract” needs some more attention. scorsese did a good job of putting it in people’s minds. it’s a great film. one of my favorite scores of all time.
i think “the narrow margin” is quite underrated. i think it belongs on the noir mt. rushmore with “out of the past”, “double indemnity” and “the maltese falcon”.
i’ve only seen “the narrow margin” once at a noir festival. great film. putting it up there on mt rushmore is pretty strong though. i need to see it again and get reacquainted.
Anyone ever seen a great perverse noir cheapie: The Red House? Edgar G. Robinson stars as the perv who raise’s his dead wife’s daughter because he intends to marry her. The ending is a paradigm of pessimism…this is very much one of noir’s unheralded classics.
never even heard of it. interesting. looks like delmer daves directed it. definitely an unknown one. good pick. i’ll have to see it one day.
I’ve seen that listed in the film noir books. You can get it for $1 at Target.
I told ya it was cheap. ;)
back in the limelight! for reference purposes.
Do you mean “prototypical” noir, or “archetypal” noir? Since you said you don’t want to discuss precursors, why ask about prototypes of noir? If you DO want prototypes, I would argue for Renoir’s LA BETE HUMAINE, Carne’s LE JOUR SE LEVE, and Lang’s work during the thirties, beginning with M. Merge that style and tone of filmmaking with the already emergent American crime films, PETRIFIED FOREST, PUBLIC ENEMY, any Warner’s gangster/melodrama really (Bette Davis in the thirties, I think, really paved the way for female characters in noir) and there, more or less is noir. As for the archetypical noir (or really the quintessential noir, which is what I think you meant), DOUBLE INDEMNITY (obviously), Siodmak’s PHANTOM LADY (possibly the quintessential noir director), Mann’s RAW DEAL, Lang’s SCARLET STREET, and Hitchcock’s SHADOW OF A DOUBT.
yeah, i originally meant the quintessestial noir. interesting you have “phantom lady” rated up there as one, and “shadow of a doubt”. i cant agree with you on those choices, though they’re both brilliant noir films.
“raw deal” and “scarlet street” are much more likely suspects.
“Siodmak’s (possibly the quintessential noir director)”
I would agree, but more than Phantom Lady, I would say Criss Cross, Cry of the City (what a title!) and obviously The Killers!
Touch of Evil
Sunset Boulevard
Ace In The Whole
Double Indemnity
Naked City
Blade Runner
Body Heat
The Third Man
The Maltese Falcon
High and Low
The Long Goodbye
Rodney Welch
Maybe it’s a post-noir that turns noir conventions inside out. I think Kelly, the Constance Towers character, is definitely a sort of femme fatale — she’s certainly fatale to the poor john who tried to rip her off in the first five minutes, and gets a purse-whipping he’ll never forget. She’s a very tough chick, but at heart she’s a very good soul. Also, I noticed this from something I wrote earlier about the film: “Life turns bleak and hopeless as it only can in a film noir — or a D.W. Griffith silent like Broken Blossoms or Way Down East.” Melodrama and noir have that tendency to overlap in mood and tone, I think. And there is a darkness to the ending, I think, when you notice her distance from the other people in town.