Well, Bolo, don’t you think I know that? And you know what happened with the ex-president of Korea. They were hounding his ass and making his life miserable with a politically motivated partisan investigation. It seems to me like just getting away from that miserable situation was the motivating factor more than anything.
Blue K: Umm, but people in America don’t really commit suicide over things like that. If they did, people like Blagojevich and a slew of recently disgraced Republican congresspeople wouldn’t be with us anymore.
The allegations didn’t even directly target Roh, but rather people who were in his administration at the time, as well as some of his family members. Because Roh had been the president at the time these things allegedly happened (basically taking bribes for being important people), eventually he fell on his sword, telling investigators not to target his subordinates, but to focus on him instead. And then he threw himself off a mountain. That sounds a pretty typical Eastern suicide scenario to me. It is pretty typical for authority figures in East Asian cultures to take this kind of paternalistic tack, and to hold themselves responsible (and for the culture to hold them responsible in such a way, as well, which should not be ignored either) for the overall health of the systems they manage. There’s no doubt that this was a “making right” suicide scenario, not one of “crying out for help” or of lashing out to take back a feeling of control that has been lost.
Also, you really seem to want to advance this notion that the difference between East and West has become negligible, so if somebody tries to talk about that difference (which still does exist, and is still pretty radical), they must be engaging in some kind of orientalization or something like that. First of all, I don’t even think that must be the case. We can talk about difference without entering the airy realm of orientalism. But secondly, I just find it slightly off-putting that you’re arguing such a fact-free point, that Japan’s cultural traditions (not the ones Mishima pursued, btw) are old-hat and that they’re moving toward the more contemporary American cultural disposition, which is just patently false. Japanese culture is still as consumed with issues of social responsibility, equality, and honor as it has been in the past, because at its core, it is a cultural, not political, trait.
Sure, they do it in the US too. It depends on the person. Think of Vince Foster the former White House Counsel who committed suicide over a politically motivated investigation. And think of the former Korean presidents Chun and the other Roh who were charged with far worse than the more recent Roh. Those fuckers actually got the death sentence and then were commuted, but they surely weren’t going to commit suicide, were they? It really depends on the person.
Blue K: I edited more into my post above.
The question is, did Vince Foster commit suicide out of a feeling of systemic responsiblity (i.e. the belief that his death would “right the scales”) or because he was fearful of the alternative if he didn’t? I recall some European (Italian and French, perhaps?) CEOs killing themselves after the recession hit. Was that out of systemic responsiblity or financial desperation?
I’m not saying it’s impossible for such a thing to happen in the West. What I’m saying is that the cultural disposition of East Asian countries (specifically Japan and Korea … I’m not quite sure how the political regime in China has/has not forced deep cultural change) makes it a highly likely occurrence in those places. This has not changed. Authority figures are still more or less paternalistic in nature, and the cultural expectation is still that they should make amends for anything that goes wrong on their watch. This goes for every level, whether we’re talking about government, private business, etc. Which isn’t to say that every single authority figure will commit suicide if the shit hits the fan, but rather that it occurs at a disproportionate rate compared to other countries. And of course, it’s not limited to authority figures. The “shame” game goes for anybody who does wrong, fails, or otherwise becomes “unsightly” in the eyes of society.
Bolo, yes, I agree that the “shame” suicide is definitely still more common in the Far East than in the West. But I think you’d have to recognize that the number of “depression” suicides has increased at an astronomical rate in the Far East. I mean, Japan has one of the highest suicide rates in the world, right?
Anyway, I kind of went off on a tangent, so I’m going to call it a night.
Remember this guy? Another high profile “shame” suicide
bolo tie
“Shame” suicide in the Far East is largely a thing of the past
Tell that to Korea, I don’t think they got the memo. A former president just threw himself off a mountainside here recently.
And from what I recall from the film, Schrader does not really address how much role vanity played in Mishima’s life.
Yes he does. He shows Mishima making Patriotism, and having those iconic exhibitionist photographs taken, including the one where he poses as St. Sebastian with the arrows in his chest. He also shows Mishima working out obsessively.