what I’m saying is, let’s see how long that holds up.
I want to do this cup in 2011, but I’m not sure people are going to be ready for another DC in 2012.
Question: what did we say we’d do if we had a three way tie among a group in the Group Stage?
EG
A vs B : A wins 17-12
A vs C : C wins 41-21
A vs D : A wins 38-11
B vs C : B wins 22-12
B vs D : B wins 3-1
C vs D : C wins 43-19
A, B and C have all won three matches and have all beaten one of each other.
???
I think the most total votes moves on. A-72, B-37, C-96
Jirin said:
2 way tie:
Head to head (The winner of the match-up between the two tied directors)
3 way tie:
Differential
(2 way tie with differential): Head to head
(Unlikely 3 way tie with differential): Differential in matches with 3 tied directors
(Very unlikely case where there’s still a 3 way tie): Each manager picks a film of the three they played in the round robin and we have a new vote between them.
And so long as somebody knows what that means then there’s no problem.
Yeah…I don’t understand… >.<
I think the most total votes moves on. A-72, B-37, C-96
That’s a big open door for directors like Haneke and Lang, since more people will be interested to vote in this matches. For example, most of Nikolaidis’s matches had a very. very poor outcome in last year’s cup.
If we want to base our untying method in obtained votes, we could do this:
Take the results of all the director’s like this;
34/21 28/25 40/31 18/23 then, we could divide each of those like this 1.619 1.12 1.29 0.782 add them up, and in this case get 4.811, the two directors that get the highest numbers out of this operation go on to the next round.
This, as it shows us the proportion of votes and not the brute number, eliminates or at least considerably reduces the advantage more well known directors would have if we used Uli Cain’s method.
I highly doubt that when this one wraps up people are going to wait until 2012 to do another one.
I think you are wrong RUS. The point is to get this one wrapped up before near the end of the year at which point a lot of people are busy celebrating holidays and such. Anyways, the next cup might not even be directors….
Take the results of all the director’s like this;
34/21 28/25 40/31 18/23 then, we could divide each of those like this 1.619 1.12 1.29 0.782 add them up, and in this case get 4.811, the two directors that get the highest numbers out of this operation go on to the next round.
Yup, the director with the highest average ratio of votes is who should win if that unusual case comes up.
The way I intended it, in the case of a three way tie we use votes minus votes against.
But, it might be better to use percentage of votes. That makes it more fair to less known directors, and decreases the chance of it still being tied.
If after that tiebreaker, there’s still a 2 way tie, pick the director who won the matchup between the two. If after the tiebreaker there’s still a 3 way tie, then go to percentage of votes in only the matches between the three.
If after that second tiebreaker there’s STILL a 3-way tie, then you have each manager pick one of the three films played, and have a simple vote between those three.
Awaiting Reply:
10 Bimal Roy – Greg X
20 Jacques Tourneur – Jerry Johnson
32 Michael Haneke – Maximilian Bercovicz
45 Shin Sang-ok – Blue K
In the Cup:
2 Aleksei German – Ari
3 Allan King – Canaletto
4 Ann Hui – Glemaud
5 Arturo Ripstein – Santropez
6 Benedek Fliegauf – Nick Block
7 Benjamin Christensen – Kai White
8 Bernard Émond – Marc
9 Bernardo Bertolucci – Pedja
11 D.W.Griffith – Jackford – Neil Bahadur
13 Dziga Vertov – Malkin
14 Edwin – Yuki Aditya
15 Ermanno Olmi – apursansar
16 Fritz Lang – Cinesthesia (aka Duncan Gray)
17 Grzegorz Królikiewicz – Max painter
18 Hal Hartley – Risselada
21 Jerzy Skolimowski – Brady
22 Joao Cesar Monteiro – kuxa kanema
23 Johan van der Keuken – Frank W
24 John Carpenter – Jack Lehtonen
25 John Landis – House of Leaves
26 Leos Carax – Jimmy Paradiso
27 Louis Malle – Rich Uncle Skeleton
28 Luis Bunuel – Shakha
29 Marcel Carné – Ally the Manic Listmaker
30 Mark Rappaport – Walberto
31 Masahiro Shinoda – Patapon
34 Michael Winterbottom – ComeandSee
35 Michel Brault – Eva
36 Mike de Leon – Scorpiorising
37 Nuri Bilge Ceylan – Arman
38 Paul Verhoeven – Adam Cook
39 Pedro Almodovar – Jirin
40 Pedro Costa – JP. Schmidt
41 Pere Portabella – Jose Sarmiento – Hinojosa
42 Peter Forgacs – Sanjuro
43 Richard Stanley – Dennis B
44 Robert Altman – Brad S
46 Sidney Lumet – Ulicain
47 Terrance Davies – Cecil
48 Ulrich Seidl – Cat
49 Vsevolod Pudovkin – Javier Quintero
Dropped out:
1 Alan Smithee – Sir Douglas
12 Don Hertzfeldt – PolarisDiB
19 Hideo Gosha – Bon Jovi Friday!
33 Michael Mann – Kurt Walker
“34/21 28/25 40/31 18/23 then, we could divide each of those like this 1.619 1.12 1.29 0.782 add them up, and in this case get 4.811, the two directors that get the highest numbers out of this operation go on to the next round.”
this could, however, unfairly favor directors in low-voting matches.
this could, however, unfairly favor directors in low-voting matches.
How so? Only if it was OBSCENELY low, like five votes in the whole match. But I think for most of the voting turnouts we have had, even the lowest ones, it would be pretty fair.
Awaiting Reply:
32 Michael Haneke – Maximilian Bercovicz
45 Shin Sang-ok – Blue K
In the Cup:
2 Aleksei German – Ari
3 Allan King – Canaletto
4 Ann Hui – Glemaud
5 Arturo Ripstein – Santropez
6 Benedek Fliegauf – Nick Block
7 Benjamin Christensen – Kai White
8 Bernard Émond – Marc
9 Bernardo Bertolucci – Pedja
11 D.W.Griffith – Jackford – Neil Bahadur
13 Dziga Vertov – Malkin
14 Edwin – Yuki Aditya
15 Ermanno Olmi – apursansar
16 Fritz Lang – Cinesthesia (aka Duncan Gray)
17 Grzegorz Królikiewicz – Max painter
18 Hal Hartley – Risselada
20 Jacques Tourneur – Jerry Johnson
21 Jerzy Skolimowski – Brady
22 Joao Cesar Monteiro – kuxa kanema
23 Johan van der Keuken – Frank W
24 John Carpenter – Jack Lehtonen
25 John Landis – House of Leaves
26 Leos Carax – Jimmy Paradiso
27 Louis Malle – Rich Uncle Skeleton
28 Luis Bunuel – Shakha
29 Marcel Carné – Ally the Manic Listmaker
30 Mark Rappaport – Walberto
31 Masahiro Shinoda – Patapon
34 Michael Winterbottom – ComeandSee
35 Michel Brault – Eva
36 Mike de Leon – Scorpiorising
37 Nuri Bilge Ceylan – Arman
38 Paul Verhoeven – Adam Cook
39 Pedro Almodovar – Jirin
40 Pedro Costa – JP. Schmidt
41 Pere Portabella – Jose Sarmiento – Hinojosa
42 Peter Forgacs – Sanjuro
43 Richard Stanley – Dennis B
44 Robert Altman – Brad S
46 Sidney Lumet – Ulicain
47 Terence Davies – Cecil
48 Ulrich Seidl – Cat
49 Vsevolod Pudovkin – Javier Quintero
Dropped out:
1 Alan Smithee – Sir Douglas
10 Bimal Roy – Greg X
12 Don Hertzfeldt – PolarisDiB
19 Hideo Gosha – Bon Jovi Friday!
33 Michael Mann – Kurt Walker
wasn’t Haneke a last minute dropout in the last cup? I hope he gets picked up…
Let me attempt to explain my suggestion a little better.
Stage 1)
For a 2 way tie, the director who won their match against each other wins.
For a 3 way tie, you sum each director’s votes and votes against, and whichever has the highest ratio of total votes : total votes against moves on.
That is:
Director A 40 – Director B 20
Director B 30 – Director C 20
Director C 40 – Director A 25
Director A 50 – Director D 0
Director B 30 – Director D 25
Director C 20 – Director D 15
In this, A, B, and C are all 2-1. A’s ratio is 115:60, B’s ratio is 80:85, C’s ratio is 80:70. A has the best ratio, so A wins.
Stage 2) (Still tied after stage 1)
If 2 directors are tied for best ratio, the director who won their match against each other wins.
If 3 directors are still tied for best ratio, you sum up the votes and votes against only in matches against each other and the director with the best votes : votes against ratio moves on.
Stage 3) (Still tied after stage 2)
If 2 directors are still tied, the director who won their match against each other wins.
If 3 directors are still tied, the managers of those three directors choose one of the three films they played, and we have a vote between those three films.
It’s highly unlikely that we’ll ever get past stage 1, and extremely unlikely we’d ever get to stage 3. To get there, not only would three directors have to have the exact same votes : votes against ratio, they would have all had to beat the fourth director by the exact same score.
Sorry, the word ‘differential’ is used in the official NFL tiebreaker system to mean ‘Points – points against’, I wrongly assumed the same word was used for tiebreaker systems in other sports more popular in other countries.
I’m getting like super excited here! :)
Thanks for the explanation Jirin. That makes a lot more sense to us non-sporting types now.
:)
“wasn’t Haneke a last minute dropout in the last cup? I hope he gets picked up…”
Heh…turns out he’s a dropout in this Cup…Maximilian chose to manage Carol Reed instead of Haneke :P
In the Cup:
2 Aleksei German – Ari
3 Allan King – Canaletto
4 Ann Hui – Glemaud
5 Arturo Ripstein – Santropez
6 Benedek Fliegauf – Nick Block
7 Benjamin Christensen – Kai White
8 Bernard Émond – Marc
9 Bernardo Bertolucci – Pedja
10.5 Carol Reed – Maximilian Bercovicz
11 D.W.Griffith – Jackford – Neil Bahadur
13 Dziga Vertov – Malkin
14 Edwin – Yuki Aditya
15 Ermanno Olmi – apursansar
16 Fritz Lang – Cinesthesia (aka Duncan Gray)
17 Grzegorz Królikiewicz – Max painter
18 Hal Hartley – Risselada
20 Jacques Tourneur – Jerry Johnson
21 Jerzy Skolimowski – Brady
22 Joao Cesar Monteiro – kuxa kanema
23 Johan van der Keuken – Frank W
24 John Carpenter – Jack Lehtonen
25 John Landis – House of Leaves
26 Leos Carax – Jimmy Paradiso
27 Louis Malle – Rich Uncle Skeleton
28 Luis Bunuel – Shakha
29 Marcel Carné – Ally the Manic Listmaker
30 Mark Rappaport – Walberto
31 Masahiro Shinoda – Patapon
34 Michael Winterbottom – ComeandSee
35 Michel Brault – Eva
36 Mike de Leon – Scorpiorising
37 Nuri Bilge Ceylan – Arman
38 Paul Verhoeven – Adam Cook
39 Pedro Almodovar – Jirin
40 Pedro Costa – JP. Schmidt
41 Pere Portabella – Jose Sarmiento – Hinojosa
42 Peter Forgacs – Sanjuro
43 Richard Stanley – Dennis B
44 Robert Altman – Brad S
45 Shin Sang-ok – Blue K
46 Sidney Lumet – Ulicain
47 Terence Davies – Cecil
48 Ulrich Seidl – Cat
49 Vsevolod Pudovkin – Javier Quintero
Dropped out:
1 Alan Smithee – Sir Douglas
10 Bimal Roy – Greg X
12 Don Hertzfeldt – PolarisDiB
19 Hideo Gosha – Bon Jovi Friday!
33 Michael Mann – Kurt Walker
I will open the intro topic tomorrow :)
I disappointed Kurt won’t be repping Mann
“Maximilian chose to manage Carol Reed instead of Haneke :P”
Just so everyone is aware, I would have rather stuck with Haneke.
However, the problem seemed to be how to locate his early television work (as I think one specific film would have been excellent in the Cup), and I think the rest of Haneke’s body of work is generally too well known.
.
Finally, I need to mention that I have less free time as initially expected in the next two months, so I’m sorry if my introduction to Carol Reed isn’t as in-depth as it could be. However, I still plan to vote in a fair amount of matches, and will take part in the Cup :)
Thanks,
Maximilian
you have gained votes from me.
Haneke is in my top 5 least favorite directors and I like Reed a good deal.
My fingers are crossed that no one else picks up Haneke.
This Haneke hate is making me hope someone does pick him up. At least it would make for an interesting discussion. Plus I’ve never had the opportunity to see The Castle.
^ Funny thing is that this time, the said Haneke manager would have chosen at least 1-2 of his TV films, unlike last year’s potential picks.
Yeah, Kurt would have been a perfect Mann manager, he might have chosen Thief which is in my top 5 Mann films (including Insider)
My fingers are still crossed, but I do like some of his movies. It’s just that Haneke has been one of the most discussed directors on this site for the last two years. It’s time mubi and Haneke go on a break.
^ It’s time for a lot of directors to go on a break but that won’t happen any time soon. If you can’t beat the Romans, join them, hahaha.
When are you guys planning on getting this going again?
Also, are we looking to do another World Cup in 2011, or are we just sticking with directors?
Christine, I’d be glad to provide my potential line-up for an upcoming WC, much simpler with more merged teams, newer nations and regions and an easier, faster pace to wrap up with films and monthly schedules :D
Sanjuro
Shortening the schedule gives a chance to play other fun games throughout the year (mini-cups, genre cups, glimpses of beauty, etc) that people are interested in without feeling the need to start up a new director’s cup every few months.