I want to be first.
Kenji Mizoguchi – 1 vs. João César Monteiro – 0
I think we all get a little worn down by the Cup schedule, but seeing a final like this makes me happy that I participated. I love seeing the canon and the non-canon sitting happily side by side. Mizoguchi’s consistency gets my vote.
Are all the Monteiro films available?
Kenji Mizoguchi – 0 vs. João César Monteiro – 1 (because of the weird ones that he appeared in as actor)
“Are all the Monteiro films available?”
Yep, all the Monteiro films are on the blog now :)
No matter how I compare them they come up very close. Rank them 1-10 and add up the numbers? Monteiro 28-27. Rate 1-10 and add up? Monteiro 41-40. Line item vote? Monteiro 3-2. So Monteiro tends to just slightly win all the measures, but that’s cancelled out because I think there’s a big distance between Sansho and the other nine.
So the tiebreaker goes to two things: Emotion and variety. I have more fondness for Monteiro, and he has a lot more variation in themes than Mizoguchi.
Monteiro 1 – Mizoguchi 0
João César Monteiro 1 – Kenji Mizoguchi 0
I tried to write my thoughts a couple of times, but it just comes down to the fact that I love Monteiro quite a bit more than most other filmmakers. Sansho is a masterpiece, and the other films of Mizoguchi shown here are exceptionally good, but I can’t think of another director quite like Monteiro. His approach feels fresher to me, even when it seems deceptively simple, and his sense of humor, his way of shooting both cities and the countryside, and his love of history and myth is more than enough here.
Mizo is an old, old favorite of mine. but I give the edge to Monteiro…
João César Monteiro 1 – Kenji Mizoguchi 0
No matter how I compare them they come up very close. Rank them 1-10 and add up the numbers? Monteiro 28-27. Rate 1-10 and add up? Monteiro 41-40. Line item vote? Monteiro 3-2. So Monteiro tends to just slightly win all the measures, but that’s cancelled out because I think there’s a big distance between Sansho and the other nine.
I’m having big problems too. I rate them 1-10 and add up the numbers and they are both exactly the same.
I haven’t ranked them yet, so maybe I’ll try that.
What is a “line item vote”?
I’m trying to decide which of them has my favorite film. That would be Sansho vs. Veredas. Least favorite film probably goes to Montiero with Fragments of an Alms Film.
Line item vote:
Mizoguchi’s 1st vs Monteiro’s 1st
Mizoguchi’s 2nd vs Monteiro’s 2nd
etc
Go Fritz Lang!!
: /
Mizoguchi’s 1st vs Monteiro’s 1st
Mizoguchi’s 2nd vs Monteiro’s 2nd
You mean the order they were played or the order you rank them?
Mizoguchi 1 – Monteiro 0
I still have one film to watch from one of these directors, but I’m leaning heavily in one direction.
I’ve got one more to go as well and I’m feeling the same way.
I’ve still got two – one for tonight, one for tomorrow night – but I think my vote is sealed already.
Right now it’s 3-2 Monteiro… What might the new day bring?
I make it
Monteiro 4 Mizoguchi 2
after a day of complete ceasefire- in a final! I think the need to see 10 films was too much for many. A pity. I’ve done my bit for Mizoguchi, but Monteiro too deserves a bigger turn out. Like Oliveira, he did it his way; one of the most interesting filmographies in cinema.
Why was this format for the finals considered a better idea than having five individual one-on-one matches, between the films from the respective rounds (so one could choose any subset of the matches to vote on)? Clearly the latter would have resulted in greater participation, though I’m wondering if this format was somehow considered fairer.
It’s hard with any decision; a 1 v 1 final with just one new film each would have made it easier for participation but maybe not represented the overall quality (then again, by the fact of getting so far, the quality should already be high for both). We had a poor turnout for the world cup final too, but that was down to the short timescale for seeing largely unfamiliar films. Here i assume the expectation was that most films in the final would have been seen along the way. With these events we’re still learning as we go along.
Yes it is rather disappointing:( Unfortunately every Monteiro match seems to have collected pretty low votes, but then everyone who took the time to watch his films seems to have loved/liked them. I have seen very little evidence of anyone hating his filmography or style of filmmaking. Maybe in hindsight this format for the final was not the best. I had plenty left in my ammo for some new films and I am sure Mizoguchi had even more……
Still whatever the result or turnout I think Monteiro’s name had been noted and future viewing will happen because of his run to the final and I think people will have realised that Mizoguchi has much more to offer than just Sansho, Ugetsu and Oharu.
Actually, the Mizoguchi film which placed highest- #24- in the last Sight & Sound international poll was Story of the Late Chrysanthemums (the 3 you mention were in the top 100). Whereas Taira Clan and Straits were more my wild card choices.
This is difficult. Way too difficult. I still haven’t made up my mind. This is about as evenly matched as you could get. Ok, I’m going to try to rank all of the movies like Jirin did and assign each a rank of each number 1-10. Even though that’s going to be terribly difficult as well. Here goes:
Sansho the Bailiff +10
Trails +9
Silvestre +8
Recollections of the Yellow House +7
The Story of the Late Chrysanthemums +6
Taira Clan Saga +5
Hovering Over Water +4
Street of Shame +3
Straits of Love and Hate +2
Fragments of an Alms Film +1
OK, if I do it this way then Monteiro wins. I’m not sure what else to do. Either of these guys would very easily have my vote against Ruiz or Nikolaidis though so I’m extremely satisfied with where we got this year.
Kenji Mizoguchi 0 – João César Monteiro 1
Kenji Mizoguchi 1 – João César Monteiro 0
If you had told me at the beginning I would be voting for Mizo to win the Cup, I would have thought it unlikely (but then I hadn’t seen many of his films). It’s a credit to his manager for winning me over with these excellent films.
Not to take anything away from Monteiro, whom I also love, but I don’t have any qualms voting for Mizoguchi here.
What a Cup! Thanks to all who participated!
Mizoguchi 3 Monteiro 5
Thanks for the comment and appreciation, HOL
I think the need to see 10 films was too much for many.
I think it’s appropriate that the people who have been participating consistantly all along the cup are going to be pretty much the people deciding the results of the final.
^ Word.
That also occurred last time although participation was still quite low.
Why was this format for the finals considered a better idea than having five individual one-on-one matches, between the films from the respective rounds (so one could choose any subset of the matches to vote on)? Clearly the latter would have resulted in greater participation, though I’m wondering if this format was somehow considered fairer.
Interesting idea, although this is the first time it was ever proposed. How would you pick which film would go up against which film? Also keep in mind it would extend the number of matches potentially the time of the cup.
Actually, the Mizoguchi film which placed highest- #24- in the last Sight & Sound international poll was Story of the Late Chrysanthemums
Wow. I’m rather surprised by that.
Rich Uncle Skeleton
The extended voting period for this match lasts until 8:00 pm GMT on Friday, December 2, which means that users will have over 95 hours in order to publish their votes. The world map which lists all current time zones can be found on www.worldtimezone.com, so that everyone can be up to date about how much time is left.
After the voting period is over the votes will be counted and the results published.
Each user can vote in this match as long as they’ve seen the ten films that are participating in this match. An explanation for the preference in each case would be greatly appreciated. Managers are not allowed to vote on matches that their director participates in. The voting should be handled like this:
Director A 1 (or 0) – Director B 0 (or 1)
Please mark the winning film/score in large or heavy print.
PLEASE NOTE: IF YOU DO NOT NAME BOTH FILMS IN YOUR POST YOUR VOTE WILL NOT BE COUNTED
The match you´re going to vote for on this thread is:
Kenji Mizoguchi vs João César Monteiro
Where the two directors are represented by the following two sets of five films:
Kenji Mizoguchi
Straits of Love and Hate
Sansho the Bailiff
Street of Shame
Taira Clan Saga
The Story of the Late Chrysanthemums
João César Monteiro
Hovering Over Water
Silvestre
Fragments of an Alms Film
Recollections of the Yellow House
Trails
You are to vote for the director that made the set of five films that you prefer.
If you have not seen these films and are not able to access them on your own then pm me and I should be able to give you access to the streaming links.