DIRECTORS’ CUP 2011 VOTING, ROUND 2, MATCH 8: Allan King (A Married Couple) vs. Hal Hartley (The Unbelieveable Truth)
Den says:
A Married Couple (1) vs The Unbelievable Truth (0)
RUS says:
Allan King (A Married Couple): 1 —vs— Hal Hartley (The Unbelievable Truth): 0
But what did you think of them???
Allan King A Married Couple 0 – Hal Hartley The Unbelieveable Truth 1
King’s film is a fine documentary, but for me it’s interesting almost completely for the “what” and very little for the “how.” Hartley’s film interests me in terms of both “what” and “how,” so it gets my vote.
Allan King (A Married Couple) 0 vs Hal Hartley (The Unbelievable Truth) 1
i’m giving this to hartley, because although i rated a married couple higher, there’s something….niggling me about king that i haven’t figured out yet, and whilst i like a married couple more than warrendale, i liked this round’s hartley way more than the one from the previous round. okay, so it doesn’t have That Voice (swoon) but it does have blue-eyed orange Texas in recompense….
Allan King (A Married Couple) 0 vs Hal Hartley (The Unbelievable Truth) 1
Allan King (A Married Couple) —0 vs. Hal Hartley (The Unbelieveable Truth) —1
Riss—I haven’t seen either yet. Hopefully I’ll be able to catch up before the match ends. I still need to see the Mamoulian film to vote in that match, too. Luckily there’s no basketball tonight, so I should be able to sneak it in.
Allan King (A Married Couple) 1 vs Hal Hartley (The Unbelievable Truth) 0
Out of the five King films that I have seen, I rank A Married Couple 4th. However, that is not a criticism of this film so much as it is a celebration of his even better works. My main problem with AMC was that the subjects, unlike the children of Warrendale, the soon-to-be-deceased of Dying at Grace and the forgetful of Memories, seemed to be acting at times, since they were very aware of the camera and out to make themselves look good. The fact that the facade was broken repeatedly shows the brilliance of King.
Hartley’s film was my first from him. I had seen Adrienne Shelley’s Sudden Manhattan earlier and recognized the influence in this film (although I do have to admit I preferred Sudden Manhattan). In another match, I may have been tempted to vote for Hartley, but in this case, King was the obvious choice for me.
P.S. Does anybody think that the couple in AMC may have been the inspiration for the Funkes from Arrested Development? Other than the fact that they stayed together for far too long, the father looks a lot like Tobias!
A Married Couple 1 – The Unbelieveable Truth 0
A Married Couple is a straight honest portrayal of a disintegrating relationship and the kind of fights that come up. Two people don’t listen to each other or even give them credit for having valid concerns, then when they start to fight, they drag in every little small issue in their marriage in order not to give any ground. It also reveals a lot about gender politics in a progressivizing culture. We get a look at a culture that has decided men and women are equal, but where women still don’t have access to careers and thus can’t leave their husbands without sacrificing their lifestyles.
The Unbelievable Truth was pretty good, but it’s the third Hartley film I’ve seen and the third that has pretty much the exact same characters and makes the exact same social commentary. Does Hartley have any range at all?
@Matt
I think the ‘How’ is there, it’s just not stated directly to the camera. It’s left to the viewer to contemplate himself or herself, and I prefer that to the sort of movie where a character states directly to the camera “This is the message of the film!”
This one demands further thought. I’ll be back later.
Riss—I haven’t seen either yet.
Oh I wasn’t talking to you. I was talking to Den and RUS who voted with no comments.
Oh FINE! Then I wasn’t talking to you, either!
now now you two, which one of you is in the bra and pearls, and which one is in the vest and red knickers? frankly either way is disturbing.
were they costumes? it looked like they were in costume most of the time…
They couldn’t be costumes, could they? It must have been their real clothes. I know I couldn’t wear them just for show. I’ve seen people now wear similar stuff so it must have been fairly regular then.
Does Hartley have any range at all?
Some of his shorts are quite different. His visual style has changed over time. His writing style as you can see tough is very idiosyncratic, so that’s not going to change a lot. It’s part of his personality. But of course that’s why I like most of my favorite favorite writers and filmmakers and other artists. You can recognize their style and it greatly appeals to you. You can depend on it. I know a Hartley film when I see it and I like that. Just like how I depend on the style of some of my other favorite filmmakers like Aki Kaurismäki and Tsai Ming-liang to be recognizable. I don’t think it would be honest or effective if they tried to do something different but not genuine just for the sake of “range”.
Some directors like Richard Fleischer from last year’s cup worked in countless different genres and styles, but he was a different kind of director in that he worked in a big studio system where different films were handed to him. Hartley is an artist working on a much smaller, personal scale where he controls and creates a lot more of it, so he’s going to do something more personal.
Here’s a parrallel with pop music. Almost every Ramones song sounded the same, but that was because what they did was great. I don’t think it would have been very successful or wise for them to try to suddenly try to learn jazz instruments and put out a jazz album. Most bands I like I can recognize their style immediately for most of their carreers, but I like that. Some bands like Ween can do almost every different style, but are still going to have certain attitudes that are consistant. Just like Hal or the Coen brothers, they can try different genres but it can still clearly be their own individual “genre” put into that wider genre.
Now thinking about my last post, maybe I should have featured one of his short films to show a bit more diversity…
Although I wanted to show what I liked. I saw this almost as much of a way to show off my own personality as much as Hartleys, although thinking about it maybe his idiosyncracy means that it’s really not necessary for him to go on beyond the first stages of this Cup. Anyone who likes him has a decent idea of what he’s about and can seek out what they want. Anyone who doesn’t like him may not find much reason to watch too much more.
Heck, I only needed to see a couple Nikolaidis films to know what he was about and that I didn’t like it none too much.
I’ll make sure to check out some of his shorts later on.
The other Hartley film I’ve seen is Trust, so maybe I’ve just been exposed to too narrow a band of his output to see his range.
And I did like the film. I like the villain, and the way he uses bargaining to bully people and come off as being reasonable. I like the way nobody has any idea what his supposed crime was and only judges him based on the fact he was convicted. If people are made into villains by the press, people stop caring about the facts and only care about the story.
Just like Hal or the Coen brothers, they can try different genres but it can still clearly be their own individual “genre” put into that wider genre.
Aha! Maybe somebody can manage the Coen Brothers genre in the genre cup, since we’re being open-minded about the definition of genre and all. ;)
Although I wanted to show what I liked. I saw this almost as much of a way to show off my own personality as much as Hartleys, although thinking about it maybe his idiosyncracy means that it’s really not necessary for him to go on beyond the first stages of this Cup. Anyone who likes him has a decent idea of what he’s about and can seek out what they want. Anyone who doesn’t like him may not find much reason to watch too much more.
This is a very good point and something I very much like about this cup’s format. I’m in the same sort of spot with Dziga Vertov; although I think he has a shot, I don’t see it as necessary for him to proceed to the next round. After this round I will have shown what he does and how he does it – through his more obscure, difficult-to-find films – and if you’re on the same wavelength it’s easy to seek out what few other films he has that are available. I think it’s the same situation with a lot of directors who are going to be knocked out in the first round, and it’s a very good thing because it keeps a Nikolaidis situation from happening, where only fans continue voting in his matches while others give up on him.
I have watched the Hartley but not the King. Like House, I also need to catch Blood and Sand. Will be voting tomorrow once I’ve caught up.
“I think the ‘How’ is there, it’s just not stated directly to the camera.”
Oh yeah, there’s a definite visual style to it, that’s not what I’m saying, I just don’t think that the whole invisacamera cinéma vérité thing doesn’t really work for me in this film, partly because, like Shaka already said, the Edwards are clearly playing to the camera at least some of the time. The Hartley film is so deadpan that, while it’s obviously less “realistic” than the King, it still seems more real to me.
A Married Couple-0, Unbelievable Truth-1
Allan King (A Married Couple) 1 vs Hal Hartley (The Unbelievable Truth) 0
Allan King (A Married Couple) – 0 vs. Hal Hartley (the Unbelievable Truth) – 1
As much as I really liked both these films, I’m going with the Hartley film. Similar to the way I felt about Henry Fool, the writing is ridiculously good and I always felt that I wanted to know more and more about the characters and it was always given to me.
A Married Couple 0 – The Unbelieveable Truth 1
I gots ta watch A Married Couple and make sure to vote in this one
Allan King (A Married Couple) 1 vs Hal Hartley (The Unbelievable Truth) 0
6-7 Hartley, I believe.
Wait, Matt, what’s the second picture you posted? That’s not from The Unbelievable Truth is it?? I can’t remember a scene like that anywhere. I don’t even recognize that woman. Did I forgot a scene in my own movie?
House of Leaves
The extended voting period for this match lasts until 7pm BST (6pm GMT) on Friday, June 10, which means that users will have over 48 hours in order to publish their votes. The world map which lists all current time zones can be found on www.worldtimezone.com, so that everyone can be up to date about how much time is left.
After the voting period is over the votes will be counted and the results published. The next match will begin before 7pm BST (6pm GMT) on Sunday, June 12.
Each user can vote on any match as long as he/she has watched both films that are lined-up against each other. An explanation for the preference in each case would be greatly appreciated. Managers are not allowed to vote on matches that their director participates in. The voting should be handled like this:
Film A 1 (or 0) – Film B 0 (or 1)
Please mark the winning film/score in large or heavy print.
PLEASE NOTE: IF YOU DO NOT NAME BOTH FILMS IN YOUR POST YOUR VOTE WILL NOT BE COUNTED
The match (managers in parentheses) you´re going to vote for on this thread is:
Allan King (Canaletto) A Married Couple vs. Hal Hartley (Risselada) The Unbelieveable Truth
If you have not seen either of these films and are not able to access them on your own then pm me and I should hopefully be able to give you access to streaming links.