I’m surprised too to see Jubilee losing. Most of the misanthropic apocalypse films did really well.
I shudder to think it might have lost to Wyler. People want canon directors out because they’re not discoveries but they’re fine with sentimentally formulaic Hollywood mainstream directors who are also not discoveries?
It’s kind of funny that the first round I’ve wanted Jarman to win is the one he’s losing.
I’m surprised too to see Jubilee losing.
It needed a write-up to guide people beyond the razzle dazzle.
Well, A Man Escaped is a masterpiece indeed. It could be the cinematic meaning of consistence. The space treatment, the work with concrete objects, transforming them into sublime tools; the reflection on spirit and freedom, the amazing subtle suspense even when the very title destroys any superflual expectation. Redundantly, in a Directors’ Cup, it’s the highest lesson in film direction, tone, acting, pacing, space, or rather, removing intrusive elements till finding only the essential ones. I’d like to think in a critic exercise: How to attack Bresson? Would it be possible to demonstrate that A Man Escaped is not such a pertinent film?
I think there was a Jarman system in Jubilee. Maybe it wasn’t performed at his best. Particularly, the violent scenes with cops at the end, were lame and generique in contrast to the rest of the film’s brilliant solutions and decisions. I expected these scenes to be more creative from what I’ve seen from this director. However I appreciated a lot the presence of Elizabeth and her companions, adding counterpoint to the whole film and giving it a big dimension. Thanks to them this is not just a ghetto film and It somehow trascends, territories and time, because of transformations into symbols. It’s not just a film for Britain people. Poetry and symbols save this work. It’s a film on canons, trends, art movements and paradigms in history, from the basis of these punk girls and boys’ discoveries and actions. It’s the concrete and raw, facing the symbolic and poetic in the visitors (that aren’t just visitors).
Derek Jarman (Jubilee) (1) vs Robert Bresson (A Man Escaped) (0)
C’mo Twodead, any punk is better than Texas punk…
It needed a write-up to guide people beyond the razzle dazzle
yes, and the “punk this, punk that…” over focus
but many scenes now seem dated and cliched
do we make allowances for this though? I try to, generally…do others?
29 – 19 Bresson
:(
Jarman beat Bartas with Caravaggio. This film is possibly Jarman’s most accessible least controversial film. Three Crowns of A Lost Sailor is doing very well at the moment and I have seen many comments stating that this is the best Ruiz yet. I know one thing it is his most conventional. As Dim said Act of Seeing, Elephant, Promise of Flesh, Sweet Movie, film etc etc all lost to more restrained films. You only have to read this thread and others to see the majority of voters have been turned off by shock, sex, graphic violence, extreme views on sexuality and hysteria. The quiet contemplative film will nearly always advance, beacuse for right or wrong this type of film is often thought of as more sincere, worthy and intelligent.
Just coming back to this post. I do think you have a good point with the films you referenced, but I would still argue with you saying that majority of voters have been turned off by these things. Certainly there are nearly as many who have one view as another. The Promise of the Flesh and Sweet Movie matches were relatively close and my memory is that there were about just as many proponents of the film as those who were turned off. As for Elephant which I know was your selection, it was a big gap, but I think there was still a lot of respect for the film, and hysteria and sex were not present there at all.
And we do still have the likes of Zulawski, Yoshida, and Nikoladis still going strong here. I think if you look at those left standing it goes against the statement that a clear majority are turned off by these things.
Personally I don’t mind these things in and of themselves, it’s just how the film depicts them and what kind of values and behaviors it seems to endorse or be preoccupied with that depends. I’ve enjoyed Go, Go Second Time Virgin for instance. Personally I seem to prefer films that have more of a focus. For whatever reason a lot of these films you are referring to that are using the extremes of content are also using very wild and scattered forms. But some directors like Ruiz sometimes use these scattered forms without the excess of sex, violence, and hysteria.
It’s not that I don’t personally love Voyage to Cythera or The Hole or Diary of a Country Priest…it’s just that…fortune doesn’t favor the bold in whatever type of Art we’re discussing…it’s not surprising that Achebe, de Sade or Sarojini Naidu’s naturalistic ballads aren’t mentioned in the same vein as Walt Whitman, Dostoevsky or Rimbaud.
And what kind of “fortune” do you mean exactly?
Cat: Even though I voted for Bresson, I’m ;( too since I think the vote should probably be closer at least. Jubilee is far more effective, I think, than Caravaggio, and ranks up there with Last of England. Of course I think Blue is an artistic juggernaut, but Jubilee is easily in the top two or three I’ve seen so far.
Fear not Cat, I’ll crush Bresson or Zulawski for that matter, MUAHAHAHAHA.
I’m pretty sure Blue is his best film, you can’t get any better. I guess that was going to be Cat’s pick for the final if she managed to get Jarman there. About Bresson, I don’t really have big expectations on him.
And we do still have the likes of Zulawski, Yoshida, and Nikoladis still going strong here. I think if you look at those left standing it goes against the statement that a clear majority are turned off by these things.
Maybe so Risselda but as a manager when choosing your next film with a film maker with a diverse range such as Jarman or Zulawski it can be far riskier choosing their more extreme works than choosing the “safe” option which would veer to the arthouse norm. You only have to read the comments from previous postings such as Sebastiane being too gay for a straight man to completely understand, people getting fed up of Japanese kink or comments used by many users Still, I prefer slow and pretty or It’s been the more contemplative bunch I’ve tended to be more inspired by this time around. I’m not griping at anyone. I just found the trend rather interesting and was wondering why users preferred the slow and pretty. Everyone has their biases. I have voted agains,t probably unfairly against, anime every time in this competition becuase I can’t stand it!! To believe that we are all completely enlightened human beings and we judge all these films on merit bringing no preconceptions to the table is naive.
You forgot monster sex.
“I’m pretty sure Blue is his best film, you can’t get any better.”
I actually love Jubilee and Last of England more than Blue but maybe that’s me and my preference for the radical Jarman, not the “contemplative” one!
(tongue in cheek for Ris, hehe)
as it seems, jarman won’t make it to the semis :(
ahh, too bad!
in the meantime, zulawski gets his ass kicked… it’s a shitty world
I just found the trend rather interesting and was wondering why users preferred the slow and pretty.
There are a great many who have expressed their interest in the grotesque and daring.
The biggest problem in all of this is the people marginalizing their own support base.
I would also add that Jubilee is one of my least favorite films that I have seen in the last year. That’s how it goes sometimes.
Anyone even discussing wins and losses is missing the point and further highlighting the lack of discussion of the films themselves.
You forgot monster sex.
Listen, it’s about a woman who fucks with an octopus.
-Andrzej Zulawski
C’mon Cat! Just ten more votes for a draw! That’s only just over a vote per minute!
You don’t need to rub it in, Burchett.
Been gone too long – not sure how this voting works, but I select:
A Man Escaped 1
For me it’s not whether the film is disgusting or has extreme sexuality, it’s whether said sexuality has an artistic purpose other than just defying taboo and shocking the audience.
Voting is over
A Man Escaped wins 29-19 (that last vote for Bresson technically doesn’t count seeing as Jubilee wasn’t mentioned…)
Well boo hoo for Jarman, but as I said before from some of the useless comments I have seen above it doesn’t really surprise me. Well I better shut up now I wouldn’t want to marginalise my support base now, would I?
“The biggest problem in all of this is the people marginalizing their own support base.”
I’m not entirely sure what you’re getting at here. I doubt anyone honestly decided to vote against one of my films because I loved Singapore Sling and mentioned an interest in guro…
I’m not entirely sure what you’re getting at here. I doubt anyone honestly decided to vote against one of my films because I loved Singapore Sling and mentioned an interest in guro…
Quite the opposite. It is the people who love stuff like Singapore Sling who are being ignored in order to complain about the minority who didn’t.
All of this whining and moaning about people preferring contemplative cinema when all of the contemplative filmmakers have been knocked out – someone had to vote for these crazed beasts. Would they ever be satisfied? Doubtful. They complain that those films that are less crazed do better – no shit. The already large fanbase still vote for those films and then the moderates sway toward the one closest to the middle. In all consensuses and in all votes this is always the case: Median Voter Theorem. It’s predictable. It’s understandable. Stop whining. Talk about the films.
Well I better shut up now I wouldn’t want to marginalise my support base now, would I?
Ahh, the putrid stench of politicking. The less you talk about the films the more you marginalize those interested in discussing them.
I am not going to turn this thread into some kind of idiotic argument which it seems like it has already so I’ll keep it brief and final.
Leaves you misunderstand me. I was not whining/bitching whatever you like to call it. It is a great shame on this site that then when one expresses an opinion there seems to be a bitter cynical user ready to put down and snipe at other users. I said I liked contemplative films, I said I was not having a gripe at users who veered towards this style so what is your freaking problem? This kind of negative one upmanship really disheartens me and while you say you want to talk about films I see no great evidence of this. Have you ever seen my profile or seen how I have contributed to this site? You prefer to snide and prejudge other people and that seems plain rude. Anyway back to the discussion of films….
yes and I will ask again, did people allow themselves to be put off Jubilee because of what to a 21st century intellect might find cliche /dated. I felt myself doing that but shut that out and put myself in the film in 1977 and it really made a difference. Jubilee is of course, a film that lends itself to the eye roll in this regard, whereas A Man Escaped is timeless. I am sorry to see Jubilee lose and think it was not fully pondered upon being often reduced to a commentary on punk when it was so much more.
@tripzone:
what makes one timeless and one dated?
I don’t think it’s dated, that’s what I’m saying I think it has timeless messages and that’s what I focused on, but others said they didn’t vote for it because it was cliched/dated. A Man Escaped would never be called that, Jubille is however open to such dismissive “been there done that” kind of thinking if viewed in a skin deep kind of way
Leaves you misunderstand me. I was not whining/bitching whatever you like to call it.
You say you weren’t, but you still kind of were. That’s why you mentioned it to begin with – because it’s obvious. And it’s alright. It’s inevitable when you care about winning and losing and start talking strategy. I’m not attacking you, I’m just saying – let’s not talk about winning and losing. It’s wasted words and beside the point. That’s it. Not anything to get upset about.
twodeadmagpies
oh i just caught up with this thread, and can’t let a sudden love pass:
jerry’s punk video 1 vs the others in this thread 0
adorable and muddy
btw are there really so many texan cinephiles? or are they just more…vocal?