Lars von Trier (Antichrist) 0 vs Eric Khoo (No Day Off) 1
though I preferred 12 Storeys to No Day Off
No. It feels fake like Bresson’s A Man Escaped and Au Hazard Baltazar feel a little fake. And I didn not like the statistics in between scenes but I love the way the story is told with so little.
Yes there are moments of great beauty in this film but every moment of beauty is wasted. The performances are wasted. The photography is wasted. The premise is wasted. Everything is a waste and maybe that is what the antichrist is, but thats just me trying to rationalize this waste of a film. By the way if anyone knows Von Trier please tell him to stay away from the camera when he gets depressed again.
Is it just me or does this make little to no sense? how is the beauty, etc. wasted?
In making a Antichirst, thats how!
Stay calm Josh, this thread’s about No Day Off and Antichrist………don’t harm Berjuan just because he criticized two great pieces of cinema……….no, no……….not for that………let it pass………pass………pass……….PASS!!!!!!!
Nohea, I am pretty sure that voting is over in just under 15 hours from now. I hope you see this before the “time stamp” of my post becomes too vague.
OH NO I’ve awakened the wrath of S!!!!
Weird comparison Sir Berj. Bresson is overly subtle… NDO is the exact opposite. :P
When I feel like I am being lied to I can’t take anything being said seriously. That’s why I think overplaying a message negates the message.
Maybe we are talking about diffrent aspects of the film. To me the part that hit me hardest about NDO is the scene when you see the Siti’s kid all grown up (hes big fat kid). To me that is what the film is about and that is never mentioned in the film except when its hinted at in a letter and a phone call. To me the film is about Siti sacrificing her family and all the time she missed with her son.
I was referring to how the film is beyond melodramatic in its caricatures of her employers.
It just feels so fake to me, in that the villains are to villainous and the events are over the top in their terrible nature.
Its like Dancer in the Dark except without giving us time to care for the character AND it has a message to it which makes melodrama much more dangerous because melodrama and a message often just results in me either be offended or bored. :P
Berj—I don’t think it’s not mentioned. It’s mentioned early and is the background to everything that she endures.
Sir Douglas, yes thank you I did get my vote in..decided I best not wait for a full moon although this discussion may endure well beyond that time ;)
I don’t understand how beauty, great performances and fantastic photography are a waste. That seems like a contradiction. Can you explain? I get that you dislike it, but if you see moments of beauty and positive aspects, why be so dismissive? I’m not a fan of the self indulgent argument either. I feel all artists should be less concerned with appeasing an audience and more self indulgent if need be. Sometimes that’s what makes them amazing artists.
Antichrist 16, No Day Off 19 (pretty sure at least)
Actually I don’t think the first family were so villianous. Strict sure, so rich that a maid is ‘just a maid’, OK.
But they took the time and effort to train her to do all sorts of things she couldn’t do before like speak English, prepare amazing food for rich people (and how to use the coffee machine). She was doing really well before they bailed on her and left her with a family who wanted Chinese(?) cooking which of course she had no idea how to do.
If she weren’t an Indonesian imported maid, she could probably have opened her own restaurant. Or moved to America with the original family.
Lets not forget that the point of the film is that in some cases the families are far, far worse than this. Siti’s only real problems are with the familiy she left behind back home. Anything portrayed in the film is just the ‘standard’ routine these girls go through (some bad, some good, 10 months slave labour and no control over what happens to them whatsoever).
“I’m sure they are mistreated. I’m sure there is absolute cruelty. But to tell me that people in Singapore are this over the top and caricature-like is ridiculous.”
this isn’t the case here. a lot of individuals either on this thread or members of this site are also thinking it in universal terms. if you tell me you cannot accept multiple possibilities of a story-line, then i’ll consider you another Western “Americano”. and i don’t give a shit if i say that.
too many are accusing No Day Off on the scenario material when Matthew Carter says on the film’s wall: …It’s a docu – drama that has been stripped to the bare essentials and is almost a video diary of a young Indonesia maid…
for the record, Shining and No Day Off are equal in my book, so start pouring your venom you Kubrick purists and academic fanboys.
to each their own
I’ve heard great things about Be with Me and 12 Storeys so I really don’t care who wins this match up.
I’m going to go watch Full Metal Jacket and eat some apple pie. I’ll talk to you later.
Lars von Trier (Antichrist) 0 Eric Khoo (No Day Off) 1
Good to see strong support for Khoo here, although I suspect that most are voting against Antichrist.
I really don’t understand why the manager for Lars von Trier decided to begin with Antichrist, which I think is his worst and weakest film till date. I’m a huge von Trier fan, but this one left me completely cold, and I choose to explain it away as some kind of momentary (hopefully!) delusion/deviation. I completely agree with The Auteurs (in 3-D), and I’m finding it really unfair that von Trier is made to compete with a film where he shoots himself in the foot. Couldn’t one have picked something like Medea or The Five Obstruction (made with Jorgen Leth) which could have equally polarised responses, but would have been, in my view, a far more interesting and just choice? Since that isn’t the case, I’ll abstain from voting.
What a downer after the Tati-Ivens match!
LARS VON TRIER (Antichrist) 1 – ERIC KHOO (No Day Off) 0
This was a difficult decision and one that does not reflect the film I enjoyed most, but rather the one I admire most. I suppose it is similar to some of the discussions that have gone on about how a ‘Favourite’ film can be different from a ‘Best’ film.
I think the ‘message’ of this film is that women are evil and are so hungry for sex that they could watch their child climb out of a window to their death and not do anything so as not interrupt their orgasm. This seems to be it. Wrapped up in a lyrical, beautifully shot film is such grotesque behaviour and actions that I cannot like this film. I do not understand almost every single one of Willem Defoe’s actions as the husband. Very difficult to watch in places, but with an opening like that, you are not expecting an easy viewing experience. The most interesting line is about nature having been created by Satan, not God. What a great, interesting idea. If only this had been explored instead of what was. A lot of the imagery is impossible to decipher and its meaning is still unknown to me. Maybe the genius of the film lies in understanding these, but I will never re-visit this film so I will never know. A film easy to love for many of its images, hard to liek for almost everything else. Charlotte Gainsbourg’s performance is rightly being lauded and the Cannes prize for her was well deserved.
No Day Off
A fictionalised account, made to look like a documentary, of a woman from a small village in Indonesia, moving to Singapore to work as a maid so she can send money home to her family. She leaves her husband and new-born child to do this. Her story is intercut with title cards giving facts about how many women do this, how badly they are treated, etc. It is a difficult, humiliating job, especially as she cannot speak the local language, is paid $300 a month for working like a dog and being treated like one. It is heart-breaking to watch her struggle on, especially as there is a day counter on the screen throughout. In total she spends about 4 years doing this before going back to her village and seeing her son again. This mock-documentary clearly highlights what these women go through and the fact that there are so few laws to protect them is scandalous. The entire thing is only 40 mins long and shot in small snippets, always focusing on the maid, never her employers, seemingly hiding their identity as they are almost all uniformly unpleasant and treat her like a second class citizen.
The reason that Antichrist won this match for me was not because of the story – which I didn’t enjoy – but rather for the fact that it is a superior piece of visual film-making, whereas No Day Off, in comparison, seems pedestrian. Both films are manipulative but like it or hate it, Antichrist has style and flair. I enjoyed Antichrist less because the storyline felt like it was trying to be controversial for its own sake, but in my mind, it is an outstanding piece of film-making and makes me want to see more Von Trier.
I won’t think this through.
I must admit I was planning to vote for the less known film but the thing is,
after having watched it, I simply feel that Antichrist may lack some heart
and Lars may be a sick and cold auteur, but he is more close to what I feel cinema is all about
(although he’s made a lot better films than this one), so my vote goes to Antichrist.
I find the debate very interesting and will write more when an imminent competition of mine is over.
But for now, briefly: I admit that No Day Off might be pushing it with its antagonisation but I feel it raises a valid point about dehumanisation in itself and still has quite a fair bit of utility. What I feel rather uncomfortable with are the votes for Antichrist because of its superior visual style. I assure all that Khoo has much more visual flair to offer, but I don’t think cinematography and how polished one’s image is should be of even similar importance to content.
Nevertheless, I accept that not all might like or agree with No Day Off and I do think Antichrist has its merits. I am glad that my main goal of getting many to watch No Day Off has been achieved. :)
dont know if im too late or what but mine is
Antichrist – 0 No Day Off – 1
I think on a personal level the techniques used in No Day Off were very very interesting (and can easily be overlooked). I was never much of a Trier fan (despite the fact I understand totally why he’s so admired) … I guess No Day Off is more my cup of tea
Antichrist – 1 No day off – 0
antichrist is a masterpiece, there’s no way no day off even compare
i’m a fan of von Trier and i must say that i’ve always hated movies which are made to look like documentaries
19 – 21 if i’m correct.
Antichrist – 1 No day off – 0
That fox made my day, really. Thanks Lars.
Quicky question: If I wanted to reconsider and change my vote, is that possible? Something Ben. said yesterday has had me thinking… and Antichrist might be better… :/
I hate to say it but I’m having the same crisis. But without rewatching the film I can’t change my vote in good conscience. I had the feeling this would happen.
man, i’d hate to see Von Trier passing with that film….whatever, whoever passes is facing off either Sayles or Breillat and both are fierce opponents.