Erich von Stroheim (The Wedding March) 0 vs Francis Ford Coppola (Apocalypse Now: Theatrical Cut) 1
I like both films. I’m being too lazy to make any other comments right now. Let me come back to it.
Erich von Stroheim (The Wedding March) – 0 vs Francis Ford Coppola (Apocalypse Now) – 1
I think The Wedding March is a five star film and I’d love to see more from Erich von Stroheim, but politics aside Apocalypse Now is one of the best films American cinema has to offer on all levels. Walter Murch’s achievements in editing and sound design alone make this decision for me.
Erich Von Stroheim The Wedding March 1-Francis Ford Coppola Apocalypse Now 0
Dimitris is quite correct about The Wedding March, it was originally released in two parts, but our current version is missing several reels also. The imagination boggles at what could have been.
Some interesting POVs have been stated.
Apocalypse Now 1 — The Wedding March 0
Sorry, Kai… My vote was originally The Wedding March, but as I was thinking about it… Apocalypse Now sort of consumed my soul, it REALLY grew on me. Act II is SPECTACULAR.
Everyone should see John Derek’s Once Before I Die (key elements were borrowed from that film by FFC). He clearly watched Beach Red before making Apoc as well.
7-11, Apocalypse
The Wedding March is a wonderful, and a fine piece of storytelling (with a bit to say about the aristocracy of the time). What stands out to me more than von Stroheim’s direction is his performance: a sweet, innocent, overgrown boy of a nobleman. The fact that this was meant as the first half of a larger project definitely colors my perception of it. Taken on its own, with the “halfway point” as the end, it’s switch from romantic comedy to romantic tragedy was unexpected, and its take on love seemed subversively ambiguous. (As a restored whole, what it has to say about love is probably more conventional).
But yes, a wonderful film.
Sadly, it has the misfortune of going up against Apocalypse Now. I’m not so hot on Coppola as a whole, but Apocalypse Now is one of those films that I feel earns its reputation.
The Wedding March 0 – Apocalypse Now 1
Brady: Sorry, Kai… My vote was originally The Wedding March, but as I was thinking about it… Apocalypse Now sort of consumed my soul, it REALLY grew on me
?? Is the assumption that I’m repping von Stroheim? If that’s the case, apologize to Jackford. I’ve got the other silent guy, you know, the Swedish one :)
I think the Wedding March was very good. It was at least better than some of the other von Stroheim stuff I’ve seen. If this had been Greed versus Apocalypse Now, that would have been a hell of a match. I think Coppola would be meeting his ouster there. But The Wedding March is not Greed, and unfortunately, it’s not quite up to Apocalypse Now, either.
The Wedding March – 0 vs. Apocalypse Now – 1
I rewatched Apocalypse Now for this cup, and it was worth it. Awesome film.
The Wedding March – 0 vs. Apocalypse Now – 1
Oh, yes I was under that impression… huh. Sjostrom’s good, too.
Anyway, yes, Jackford, right.
Erich von Stroheim (The Wedding March) 0 – Francis Ford Coppola (Apocalypse Now: Theatrical Cut) 1
For me this is second tier Stroheim. Apocalypse Now is problematic in many ways, but for me the ideological tensions are fascinating.
The Hollow Men
T. S. Eliot
Mistah Kurtz—he dead.
A penny for the Old Guy IWe are the hollow men
We are the stuffed men
Leaning together
Headpiece filled with straw. Alas!
Our dried voices, when
We whisper together
Are quiet and meaningless
As wind in dry grass
Or rats’ feet over broken glass
In our dry cellar
Shape without form, shade without colour,
Paralysed force, gesture without motion;
Those who have crossed
With direct eyes, to death’s other Kingdom
Remember us—if at all—not as lost
Violent souls, but only
As the hollow men
The stuffed men.
Eyes I dare not meet in dreams
In death’s dream kingdom
These do not appear:
There, the eyes are
Sunlight on a broken column
There, is a tree swinging
And voices are
In the wind’s singing
More distant and more solemn
Than a fading star.
Let me be no nearer
In death’s dream kingdom
Let me also wear
Such deliberate disguises
Rat’s coat, crowskin, crossed staves
In a field
Behaving as the wind behaves
No nearer—
Not that final meeting
In the twilight kingdom
This is the dead land
This is cactus land
Here the stone images
Are raised, here they receive
The supplication of a dead man’s hand
Under the twinkle of a fading star.
Is it like this
In death’s other kingdom
Waking alone
At the hour when we are
Trembling with tenderness
Lips that would kiss
Form prayers to broken stone.
The eyes are not here
There are no eyes here
In this valley of dying stars
In this hollow valley
This broken jaw of our lost kingdoms
In this last of meeting places
We grope together
And avoid speech
Gathered on this beach of the tumid river
Sightless, unless
The eyes reappear
As the perpetual star
Multifoliate rose
Of death’s twilight kingdom
The hope only
Of empty men.
Here we go round the prickly pear
Prickly pear prickly pear
Here we go round the prickly pear
At five o’clock in the morning.
Between the idea
And the reality
Between the motion
And the act
Falls the Shadow
For Thine is the Kingdom
Between the conception
And the creation
Between the emotion
And the response
Falls the Shadow
Life is very long
Between the desire
And the spasm
Between the potency
And the existence
Between the essence
And the descent
Falls the Shadow
For Thine is the Kingdom
For Thine is
Life is
For Thine is the
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.
Von Stroheim (Wedding March) 0 – Coppola (Apocalypse Now, theatrical) 1
It appears to be The Wedding March 7, Apocalypse Now 16
“I’ve got the other silent guy, you know, the Swedish one”
Oh, so Ophuls hadn’t made any prior 30’s silents? :P
“but politics aside Apocalypse Now is one of the best films American cinema has to offer on all levels.”
That IS debatable since Robert Kramer, Hollis Frampton and Stan Vanderbeek will never get the recognition they deserve, not 1 of their works I can fairly assume.
Anyways, even if Coppola makes it, I doubt he’ll survive by Round 3, hehe.
And if Coppola does make it through I will not be surprised at all if he doesn’t make it through Round 3, and I know what film I’d like to go with.
^ It’s funny Uli because Zhang would have had much better chances and for discovery purposes too. Sure he ended up against Tsai but It’s kind of baffling seeing Coppola making it to Round 3 and Zhang not, heh.
There are still things to discover with Coppola, nuances to his work, works in the 80s that are kinda forgotten or glanced over. I’ve said it before and I truly believe it, the greatest hindrance to Coppola being considered as a great filmmaker is his success, from where he was standing in the 70s, the only place to go was down.
And let’s not talk about Zhang, it still bugs the fuck out of me.
Oh, so Ophuls hadn’t made any prior 30’s silents? :P
No, no he didn’t hahaha :). Of course he did, I’m joking. I think Brady was just identifying me as the silent film guy because of Sjostrom.
Erich von Stroheim (The Wedding March) 0 Francis Ford Coppola (Apocalypse Now: Theatrical Cut) 1
Two fantastic films… to read about, tremendous shooting stories!
Gossips say that the best of AN comes from John Milius and Vittorio Storaro instead of Coppola, I suspect that is true. However, taking into account the chaotic shooting (Hearts of Darkness: A Filmmaker’s Apocalypse is recommended viewing), the result is unexpectedly strong.
The story about The Wedding March (filming, cut, restoration, the second part) is even more fascinating, and the result is, again, unexpectedly successful. I would almost say it’s my favorite by Stroheim.
Erich von Stroheim (The Wedding March) – 1 vs Francis Ford Coppola (Apocalypse Now) – 0
How times change… Apocalypse Now was just about my all-time favorite film when I was an undergrad. But Fay Wray as a sweet brunette and Erich von Stroheim AND that uncompromising ending? FFC’s film is great, and I appreciate its selection, but I’ve got to go with the Strohmeister here.
The Heart of darkness was where I was led most of the first few times I saw Apocalypse Now, in audience participation showings. They should have been normal showings but were filled with fanboys chanting out the dialogue a few seconds before it appeared on the soundtrack. I’ve wanted to get even all those years and given the way the voting is going it is a safe time to do it. It may be disrespectful to Erich, and I do like the Wedding March…
The Wedding March 1 Apocalypse Now 0
The Wedding March 1 Apocalypse Now 0
This is a vote against John Milius and the film being too spectacular, sensational, stupendous, intoxicating…. viewers don’t leave the film turning their noses up in disgust at and despising the smell of napalm but revelling in it and the ride with Wagner. It’s also a vote against my own reactions and admiration
I’m glad most people here seem to like The Wedding March quite a bit.
Kenji (and others)—I don’t get that at all. Even when I was a kid, this was the film that made me realize how horrific and ridiculous war was.
Well, you may have had that reaction and no doubt others too, but many also seem to get off on its spectacle and Milius’ involvement also surely means something- did he really intend a leftist anti-war anti-US imperialist statement? Of course as with Scorsese/Schrader there could be balancing elements (or enough sops to mixed readings), but not enough imo
Your point about Milius is fair, and I’m reminded of a scene from Jarhead with soldiers watching the Wagner scene and going ape-shit over it. Still, it’s hard to imagine it being intended as a pro-US, pro-war film at that time.
I don’t see it either. If anything the surfing America #1 cowboy shit comes across as satire more than glamorized. I think sometimes it’s better to step back and avoid forcing a political agenda on everything. Using Wagner during the helicopter scene isn’t much different than Kurosawa’s samurai spectacles.
Kenji, thanks for clarifying your views on APOCALYPSE NOW, but I’m agreeing with HouseofLeaves here, in that the only message I got from APOCALYPSE NOW about the Vietnam War was that it was an awful, ugly, brutal and hideous thing for pretty much everyone involved, except for gung-ho psychos like Col. Kilgore.
“Many seem to get off on its spectacle” — well, yeah, but you seem to be saying that the film fails in this respect because there are some people who miss the point. Can you elaborate a bit on who these people are that seem to be getting the rightist pro-war pro US imperialist statement from the film? Can you cite some examples?
Dimitris Psachos
“I sure hope it is the first part because it ends so sadly.”
I’m not sure if the Senses of Cinema article still exists (because most have been removed due to changes) but I am certain you will find various online sources stating that this and The Honeymoon were intended to be two epic projects of gigantic art direction proportions (hence the argument of von Stroheim spending studio cash when the studios to begin with inflicted in his vision) but editors snatched the original copies from him, so von Stroheim had to modify the heavily butchered film in a very loose version of what he intended. It’s definitely part 1 of what we would have seen but it’s a helluva part 1 as it stands.