12 – 6 Sweet Bunch
Aki Kaurismäki (Ariel) 1 – Nikos Nikolaidis (Sweet Bunch) 0
The main question is, how did a group of people so self-serving, careless (about taking care of themselves or others), un-trustworthy, and bickering ever manage to secure such a large home and decorate it so meticulously?
The great thing about Kaurismäki that is hard to explain is that when his characters express themselves, you believe it 100%. When the man and woman express their absolute love for each other after just meeting, you believe it, even though there is no falling in love period and overwhelming physical evidence that you would see in other movies. And I think the reason for this is because too often we see other movies try way too hard to make you believe something emotionally that you can sense what the filmmakers are trying to do and it backfires and instead feels totally fake. With Kaurismäki he just has his characters tell you how they feel, and because you don’t feel him manipulating you with other silly techniques, you have no reason other than to believe them.
I don’t know what the Greek title of The Wild Bunch was, but I wonder if the title ‘Sweet Bunch’ was a play on that.
I saw the film as trying to do sort of what Breathless tried to do only less essayic and more entertaining. So I don’t care if the characters are believable any more than I do in a Godard or Tarantino film.
I agree with a lot of your comments on Sweet Bunch, Mike. I like the concept of the film and admire the spirit of it, but the execution is sloppy, unappealing, far too long and not engaging enough. By the end I was more annoyed with it than anything. Ariel, although simpler, is an expertly crafted and finely nuanced film oozing with style and immediately grabbed my interest narratively and aesthetically.
I also agree with you Mike, Although I liked the use of music, but felt that everything else felt very flat.
This Nikolaidis folk is one of the greatest Greek directors of all time, it’s a pity one cannot “get into” his work but at least he managed to acquire some devoted fans around here. It seems to me that we’ll still need lots of time and many decades to pass before Nikolaidis reaches the Kaurismaki status amidst critics and cinephiles.
Well Jirin…wild is wild, it doesn’t change in Greek, ha. And sweet is sweet.
The first and last scenes of Sweet Bunch where completely awesome.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the last scenes of “Sweet Bunch” were meant as a direct homage to “The Wild Bunch”.
Re Kaurismäki: you don’t feel him manipulating you with other silly techniques
Wow – does everyone feel that way?
I feel the stuff is so contrived, I laugh at inappropriate times – and that is what I like about Kaurismäki’s work!!!
Aki Kaurismäki (Ariel) – 0 vs Nikos Nikolaidis (Sweet Bunch) – 1
I like Kaurismäki—he’s definitely unique but he hasn’t really grown on me the way some of these other directors work has.
Nikoladis is fantastic and surprising. While Sweet Bunch isn’t my favorite film of his, I still feel confident in this vote.
“I feel the stuff is so contrived, I laugh at inappropriate times – and that is what I like about Kaurismäki’s work!!!”
This works better in his more “deadpan” films like with Calamari Union. It’s a deliberate reaction from Kaurismaki towards the monotony of socio-economical division, amidst classes and System. It’s the same in his more dramatic ones like Match Factory where the Individual debunks the System and yet, all this seems to be rather hilarious than melo.
Ariel was great I thoroughly enjoyed it – but Sweet Bunch was greater for all sorts of reasons :):)
I appreciated this opportunity to see films from two directors I’d not experienced before.
Ariel seems to play like part road movie, with hints of Jim Jarmusch. Some great cinematography, dry humor, gloom leavened by some tacky music, punctuated by matter of fact violence (like the suicide in the men’s room), made for a thrilling viewing experience. Sweet Bunch did not have the same impact, because of its length I had to view this in two segments. Perhaps that gives Ariel an unfair advantage, but while I did enjoy both films I’ve got to with Ariel.
Aki Kaurismaki Ariel 1- Nikos Nikoladis Sweet Bunch 0
pls wait for me. im 11 minutes to finishing sweet bunch. it’s effing brilliant!
edit: Ariel (0) – Sweet Bunch (1)
I definitely enjoyed Ariel though it doesnt excite me as much as Sweet Bunch. Too freakin good. A tad too long I suppose and like Gojira here, I had to watch it in 2 segments as well. But it sure hv kept me interested all the way till the end. Love love love it!
i’m honest, but sad.
Aki Kaurismäki (Ariel) – 1 vs Nikos Nikolaidis (Sweet Bunch) – 0
15-9 for Nikolaidis
GO NIKOS!
Aki Kaurismäki (Ariel) – 1 vs Nikos Nikolaidis (Sweet Bunch) – 0
Sweet Bunch was good, though I agree with some of the earlier complaints. If I compare it to Singapore Sling (the only other Nikolaidis film I’ve seen, which for my money is a masterpiece :P) then it is very clear for me what one of the problems is. Singapore Sling is so incredibly fun that I don’t care if the plot doesn’t make a whole lot of sense, whilst Sweet Bunch though definitely quite fun isn’t enough so to make up for the really silly writing (the issues with the writing have already been addressed earlier in the topic – why didn’t they leave the house on the multiple oppurtunities to do so? why provoke the group that attacks them in the end before they’re actually prepared to defend themselves?). Also I agree with the notion that the film is too long. It’s a complaint I hate throwing around, but the film just isn’t quite interesting or fun enough to support the two and a half hour runtime it boasts. That said there’s still quite a lot to like here, from Nikolaidis’ great sense of style and atmosphere to the amusing characters, the humour, strangeness and of course the final shootout.
Ariel, though my least favourite of the three Kaurismaki’s I’ve seen, is kinda great. I’m completely with it for the first hour or so which is really funny, emotionally engaging (swwwwwooooooooooonnnn) and even in its more absurd moments it remains convincing. The last ten minutes falter a bit for me, all the gangsters and guns stuff didn’t convince me in the slightest, but I still very much enjoyed the film.
C’mon people, at least the Sweet Bunch timeline is tolerable compared to….The English Patient :P
Well, it IS tolerable compared to Camera ;)
And Cinematron, of course.
(that’ll make Brady happy…)
I completely agree. Nikolaidis’ complexity of frame is fantastic and had me engaged from the start. I love the way he directs scenes. I find in this style a lot of substance, which works on many levels: to set the psychological mood of the characters, to play with genre, to pay homage (which has been mentioned), for humor, etc.
I loved every members of the sweet bunch gang (or whatever they are). They’re bunch of weirdos that are somewhat depressive but evidently happy characters. It’s all this layers of undesirable yet so desirable characters (or some shit like that) that got me. The wacky music was what captured me in the first place. It played around with my emotion a bit. Fortunately it didnt get me annoyed at all. It’s the exact opposite.
Nway, I loved Ariel but this being my first Kaurismaki and not being accustomed to his “style” or anything, I found it lacking in some ways that I just can’t pin it down. But I absolutely loved the scene where the guy shot himself in the bathroom. Though it was expected, and I did expect it, I found myself holding my breath the whole time till I hear the gunshot. It moved me somehow. I really loved it.
Either Nicholaidis is the find of this director’s cup, or his films are getting pitched against weak films by good directors ;-)
Hi everyone. This is my first time voting in the director’s cup. Only just discovered it, and let me say what a great idea it is. A truly lateral and surprising approach to ranking films!
I haven’t seen either of these directors’ work before, and both films are interesting. Ariel is funny (I’m definitely a fan of Scandinavian deadpan), it has a lithe little plot, and manages a couple of sly digs at the picaresque. Good acting as well, and it achieves the rare feat of great sight gags alongside snappy one-liners; it’s a comedy of dialogue and visuals. The full package.
The music in Sweet Bunch jars a little, and the plotting feels a tad loose for my taste. Some ok enough set-pieces, but insubstantial, and I wanted them to fit into a coherent whole: the cop/mystery guy didn’t loom enough, and the adult movie sequence could have been better etc. As soon as anything really interesting starts happening, there’s a cut and we’re thrust into some new ill-judged monotony. The characters felt throwaway in spite of having 2 and a half hours getting know them. I get the pastiche thing, but am not feeling it.
A no contest!
Aki Kaurismäki (Ariel) – 1 vs Nikos Nikolaidis (Sweet Bunch) – 0
Shall definitely be seeking out more Kaurismäki stuff.
“Either Nicholaidis is the find of this director’s cup, or his films are getting pitched against weak films by good directors ;-)”
Nikolaidis is a legend Joks and you better realize Greece isn’t just FUCKING ANGELOPOULOS ;)
GO NIKOLAIDIS!!!!
^^^Greece fucks all its directors, not just Angelopoulos!!
legend is too extreme for Nikolaidis. I’d settle for ‘pretty good unknown director’ for now ;-)
That “pretty good unknown” director is better than all the Finchers, Van Sants, Hanekes and Von Triers of this world though ;)
Where are you Salem to support this!
Ariel 1 Sweet Bunch 0
Ariel – 1 vs. Sweet Bunch – 0
Mike Clayton
Just a short comment on my vote above. I couldn’t get into Sweet Bunch at all. I found the characters more caricatures than believable on any level. I found the film so tediously contrived that it was painful to get through. I can’t understand all the ‘love’ for this film. To me, Nikolaidis is very hit and miss. Morning Patrol is the only film of his I can admire without reservations. He seems to be mostly all style with little substance, in this film anyway. I found the use of music more irritating than illuminating.
The Kaurismäki worked much better. I have enjoyed every one of his films that I have seen so far in this event. His gentle humanism, irony, and believable characters make his films far more enjoyable to me than Nikolaidis rather empty stylistics. Just goes to show how different all our individual takes are in this sort of film comparison.
Btw – I don’t need another lecture on my lack of taste for not loving this Nikolaidis work. Please spare me the scorn and derision – ha! I know I am a hopeless cinematic philistine for not falling all over Nikolaidis here, but them’s the breaks.