Directors' Cup Voting, Semifinals, Match 1: Raúl Ruiz (The Suspended Vocation) vs Robert Bresson (Lancelot du Lac)
Game over?
Ruiz wins: 15 – 14
Merlin couldn’t prevent it…
Match over
Ruiz slays Bresson before he can take a swig from the Holy Grail.
The Father Confessor approves of this result…
Two sad (yet funny), austere (yet beautiful) French-language classics from the mid-1970s which I’ve had immense fun revisiting. Really excellent music in both too! Neither director’s absolute best work, for me, but both are great films. Bresson’s has his very own trademark poetry (and an unexpected influence on Monty Python the following year?), but I personally find Ruiz’s labyrinthine, low-budget serio ludens more powerful and profound. Still, I decided to abstain from voting unless Bresson took the lead.
Two cuckolded Brother Jeromes have toppled one cuckolded King Arthur…
Now, I consider Dimitris to be personally obligated to say something positive about the result, after spending months complaining about Bresson.
Something unarguably positive, without any backhandedness or qualification.
Every time a Bresson match was decided by one vote I voted with the winner.
Did you see my thread Jake or was it pointless to create it anyhow? I think by creating it, more detractors appeared…
Did you read Mike Clayton’s post? DID YOU EVEN READ IT!?!?! Give the guy some credit. Give yourself more credit man!
I don’t know but I sure as hell can’t believe that there’s a dry reception once again for Ruiz!!! No wonder I won’t be participating next time, Kuxa was right.
I can’t either because it isn’t true. Get out of here man, just get out of here. Go sit in your own little room and keep telling yourself you are right about everying. Ignore everything around you.
Interesting quote form Aquinas Dim. I was curious about the “aforementioned light” though as it seemed important to understand this paragraph. I looked it up, and I think it would be useful to post the entire chapter, so here goes:
1 Since the created intellect is exalted to the vision of the divine substance by a certain supernatural light, as is evident from what has been said, there is no created intellect so low in its nature that it cannot be elevated to this vision.
2 It has been shown, in fact, that this light cannot be connatural with any creature, but, that it surpasses every created nature in its power. But what is done by supernatural power is not hindered by a diversity of nature, since divine power is infinite. And so, in the case of the healing of an afflicted person, accomplished miraculously, it makes no difference whether the person is much or little afflicted. Therefore, the varying level of the intellectual nature does not hinder the lowest member of such a nature from being able to be brought to this vision by the aforementioned light.
3 Again, the gap between the intellect, at its highest natural level, and God is infinite in perfection and goodness. But the distance from the highest to the lowest intellect is finite, for there cannot be an infinite distance between one finite being and another. So, the distance which lies between the lowest created intellect and the highest one is like nothing in comparison to the gap which lies between the highest created intellect and God. Now, that which is practically nothing cannot make a noticeable difference; thus, the distance between the center of the earth and our level of vision is like nothing in comparison with the distance that lies between our eye level and the eighth sphere, in regard to which sphere the whole earth takes the place of a point; this is why no noticeable variation results from the fact that astronomers in their demonstrations use our eye level of sight as the center of the earth. Therefore, it makes no difference what level of intellect it is that is elevated to the vision of God by the aforementioned light: it may be the highest, the lowest, or one in the middle.
4 Besides, it was proved above that every intellect naturally desires the vision of the divine substance, but natural desire cannot be incapable of fulfillment. Therefore, any created intellect whatever can attain to the vision of the divine substance, and the inferiority of its nature is no impediment.
5 Hence it is that the Lord promises men the glory of the angels: “They shall be,” He says, speaking of men, “like the angels of God in heaven” (Matt. 22:30). And also it is said that there is “the same measure for man and for angel” (Apoc. 21:3-7). For this reason, too, almost everywhere in Sacred Scripture angels are described in the shape of men: either wholly, as is evident of the angels who appeared to Abraham in the likeness of men (Gen. 18:2); or partially, as is the case of the animals of whom it is said that “they had the hands of a man under their wings” (Ez. 1:8).
6 By this conclusion we refute the error of those who have said that the human soul, no matter how much it be elevated, cannot attain equality with the higher intellects.
I think it’s the nihilism that is part of my problem with Bresson, even while admiring some of his films, and i tend to prefer more open rather than contained views, also like the romanticism of say Tennyson.
Just to reiterate my feeling again, in case you’d be surprised that someone actually sees it the opposite way, but I find Bresson to be one of the most open views you can get. I’m not seeing the nihilism.
“surely Bresson isn’t gonna do it again? What sort of Merlin wizardry is this?.”
The canon and the “name” are to blame.
Ruiz won. What is to blame for that?
“Something unarguably positive, without any backhandedness or qualification.”
Positive? Not really.
I’ll just throw my 3 picks after the other match is over, I could have thrown them now but I’m afraid that because both of the other directors can’t use 3 new films and will HAVE to use a repeat, I’ll ask Cecil IF I can use one repeat film myself. Because playing against Marketa Lazarova without some leverage, I’ll end up like these folks :D
The only thing I CAN say is that I’d hoped for Satyajit Ray or Dariush Mehrjui to have reached in the semis and NOT Bresson from Marc’s picks. I was actually expecting Bresson to lose in the first round!!! Not expecting…hoping. But look at that, now, everyone has seen the most of Bresson….just like with Kubrick, ha ha ha.
Doesn’t Vlacil still have White Dove, Smoke on the Potato Fields, AND Shadows of a Hot Summer all with subs?
I certainly hope nobody’s going to use repeats if they can help it (I know Nikolaidis can’t and hey, for all I know one of the above three films might be awful, although I doubt it). The idea being discovery, and Ruiz having so many more films out there, does it really matter who actually winds up WINNING this thing? I’d rather see a new Ruiz masterpiece with On Top of the Whale-level video quality than rewatch City of Pirates, amazing though that film may be.
“I’d rather see a new Ruiz masterpiece with On Top of the Whale-level video quality”
I don’t mind showing 10 video-quality films like that myself but I noticed there were….issues of…comprehension about that film and the quality was to blame indeed.
Thanks for reminding me about Potato Fields, I didn’t think there were subs, one more opportunity for me to watch it then!!!!
“for all I know one of the above three films might be awful”
I doubt it, imagine…if Mag has been the least great Vlacil film thus far considering it was his last, what will his unsubtitled treasures look like????
For all my knocking Bresson, I feel for the manager and knights. Bresson had goodies up his sleeve for the final, and no doubt with his filmography so does Ruiz..
The olde magic has faded, even Merlin couldn’t prevent defeat; he is still confined in a Welsh mountain and the red dragon has long waited to roar again.
from Morte D’Arthur
by Lord Alfred Tennyson
(1809-1892)
Then saw they how there hove a dusky barge,
Dark as a funeral scarf from stem to stern,
Beneath them; and descending they were ware
That all the decks were dense with stately forms
Black-stoled, black-hooded, like a dream -by these
Three Queens with crowns of gold -and from them rose
A cry that shivered to the tingling stars,
And, as it were one voice, an agony
Of lamentation, like a wind, that shrills
All night in a waste land, where no one comes,
Or hath come, since the making of the world.
Then murmured Arthur, “Place me in the barge,”
And to the barge they came. There those three Queens
Put forth their hands, and took the King, and wept.
But she, that rose the tallest of them all
And fairest, laid his head upon her lap,
And loosed the shattered casque, and chafed his hands,
And called him by his name, complaining loud,
And dropping bitter tears against his brow
Striped with dark blood: for all his face was white
And colourless, and like the withered moon
Smote by the fresh beam of the springing east;
And all his greaves and cuisses dashed with drops
Of onset; and the light and lustrous curls –
That made his forehead like a rising sun
High from the dais-throne -were parched with dust;
Or, clotted into points and hanging loose,
Mixed with the knightly growth that fringed his lips.
So like a shattered column lay the King;
Not like that Arthur who, with lance in rest,
From spur to plume a star of tournament,
Shot through the lists at Camelot, and charged
Before the eyes of ladies and of kings.
Then loudly cried the bold Sir Bedivere,
“Ah! my Lord Arthur, whither shall I go?
Where shall I hide my forehead and my eyes?
For now I see the true old times are dead,
When every morning brought a noble chance,
And every chance brought out a noble knight.
Such times have been not since the light that led
The holy Elders with the gift of myrrh.
But now the whole ROUND TABLE is dissolved
Which was an image of the mighty world;
And I, the last, go forth companionless,
And the days darken round me, and the years,
Among new men, strange faces, other minds.”
And slowly answered Arthur from the barge:
“The old order changeth, yielding place to new,
And God fulfils Himself in many ways,
Lest one good custom should corrupt the world.
Comfort thyself: what comfort is in me?
I have lived my life, and that which I have done
May He within Himself make pure! but thou,
If thou shouldst never see my face again,
Pray for my soul. More things are wrought by prayer
Than this world dreams of. Wherefore, let thy voice
Rise like a fountain for me night and day.
For what are men better than sheep or goats
That nourish a blind life within the brain,
If, knowing God, they lift not hands of prayer
Both for themselves and those who call them friend?
For so the whole round earth is every way
Bound by gold chains about the feet of God.
But now farewell. I am going a long way
With these thou seest -if indeed I go –
(For all my mind is clouded with a doubt)
To the island-valley of Avilion;
Where falls not hail, or rain, or any snow,
Nor ever wind blows loudly; but it lies
Deep-meadowed, happy, fair with orchard-lawns
And bowery hollows crowned with summer sea,
Where I will heal me of my grievous wound.”
So said he, and the barge with oar and sail
Moved from the brink, like some full-breasted swan
That, fluting a wild carol ere her death,
Ruffles her pure cold plume, and takes the flood
With swarthy webs. Long stood Sir Bedivere
Revolving many memories, till the hull
Looked one black dot against the verge of dawn,
And on the mere the wailing died away.
so sad I couldn’t vote…just no time to watch them :(:(
Lancelot II: The Return of the Legends
It’s interesting how much the opening sequence resembles the one from Bresson’s Lancelot. The release of “Monty Python and the Holy Grail” only one year after certainly didn’t do Bresson any favours, and might have subsequently caused some laughs during “Lancelot du Lac” which must have bothered him. But I also regard Python’s version of the legend as their most accomplished feature.
If only i was on time … This would have been a draw :s
Ugh, no one reminded me about this match? This is terrible. I would have voted for Ruiz, though.
You know what? Unless that Nikolaidis/Vlacil match heats up (posting this just a bit short of the finish of that match), this match-up felt very much like a final. It had two good contenders, two dedicated and active managers, two great analysis threads, and a very close vote that could have gone either way. We had Bresson, representing a director with a strong following in the cinephile community, against a filmmaker who needs and deserves more recognition. Whether this was the ‘canon vs non-canon’ fight that Dimitris implied it was, it did represent two competing schools of filmmaking, both thoroughly rooted in their own individual aesthetics. Fascinating that both were also French-language films and that both concerned internal disputes within tightly knit orders. This gave us a little drama at the end of a very long event.
I must admit that I, too, had visions of the great Monty Python and the Holy Grail going through my mind when watching certain moments in Lancelot du Lac. When the shots were centering on the horses hooves in Lancelot, I could distinctly hear those fake hoof sounds from the Python film. At the beginning, when Lancelot tells Guinevere of the failed Grail quest (setting up the whole change of events that follows), I was thinking of the ‘Grail’ women’s castle in the Python film. Had Lancelot visited there? Poor Bresson that he made his film so close to the Python’s greatest spoof (I agree with Apursansar on that).
Through the analysis threads, we got a much better view of what both directors were strivng for in these two very different films. We got some great quotes from the directors themselves, some great shots from the films, and a priceless story from David E. about the imagined leads for Lancelot that I can now say would have been totally inappropriate for Bresson’s approach.
All in all, a win-win for everyone who took part, I think. Apursansar came one vote short of getting into the finals, yet again. Last year, he made it in for India, but was defeated by a very cagey manager for China, Myra. Those still competing here are lucky Myra chose not to compete with a director for this event, as she proved very adept at directing her team to victory in last year’s Cup.
Experimentofilm summed it up best, I thinK;
Two cuckolded Brother Jeromes have toppled one cuckolded King Arthur.
True Mike, this did feel like the final. And I think those discussion threads were the reason for it. Thank you so much to the managers who have actually participated in other matches, and offered up further discussion points and resources for the films they submitted!
Yes, it was Lancelot who saved (Bedivere? Michael Palin, anyway) from the grave peril at Castle Anthrax. Bad, bad, naughty Zoot.
Glad to see I wasn’t the only one who caught similarities in the opening fight scenes with their dismemberment and profuse bloodlettings, and also the way the knights constantly raised and lowered their visors (?) to speak to one another.
The more I think about it there’s a parallel with the endings as well—neither of them makes any sense whatsoever, literally. And didn’t Bresson employ llamas to help with the final edit?
Was Bresson actually Sir Not Appearing In This Picture?
Sir Not Appearing In This Picture was Michael Palin’s son, if you want to know the truth, although perhaps Bresson was supposed to star but had a scheduling conflict or something.
Nice bit of trivia. Didn’t know that.
Perhaps the unfortunate Professor would have enlightened us on the films’ connections. Pity about the head.
Sir Douglas
Merlin and mubi are failing cinema.