“nothing new”? well, given that la haine is 17 years old, i’m not surprised.
My point is that it was nothing new at the time either….
In terms of narrative I really don’t think any film has been “new” at any time.
pretty much. by rgrimes’ logic, we shouldn’t give a shit about any movies – probably been done in books or oral folklore or cave paintings. yawn – no innovation here!
@ Slaepwerigne:
My point is that it was hailed as an innovative piece of film making…a film doesn’t have to be innovative to be good…La Haine was a good film…not a great one…is all I’m saying…but it ripped off previous films and had a predictable ending, predictable characters and situations and a mediocre script.
Can you get off the defensive now?
I’ll say in general innovative films are not often great films. Often it takes a while for the innovation to spread and become more familiar before someone comes along and makes something really great out of it.
@ Risselada:
I agree that innovation for the sake of innovation does not automatically guarantee a great film but innovation in the hands of a great auteur can can be a powerful tool.
Citizen Kane is a very innovative film in it’s use of deep focus photography, mise en scene, etc…AND…it is a great film to boot.
“My point is that it was hailed as an innovative piece of film making…”
That very easily could have been for the “how” as much as for the “what.” You’ve completely left out the former in your analysis. All films have influences. Great filmmakers just know how to use them. It doesn’t actually mean the story is new in any way.
Though, you’re wrong in attempting to point out that that culture clash had been prevalent in films before this. Very few commercially successful French films had directly dealt with the idea of racial disenfranchisement before this one.
@RGrimes -
I haven’t seen the film in about five years but I really liked it when I saw it. I don’t care to get into the debate about whether it was “new” or “innovative” (these conversations tend to put me to sleep) but I do recall finding the film very honest in it’s portrayal of these characters. I’d need to see the film again to talk about specifics but one thing that sticks out to me is that I remember feeling like I knew people like this; I could relate to these characters and the way they behaved reminded me of people I grew up with. So I very much appreciated that aspect of the film, since not many films that I see garner that kind of reaction.
@RGrimes
As Wu suggested, if we a want to compare La Haine to Rebel Without a Cause and West Side Story,
we need to understand the ‘how’ rather than the ‘what’.
All three films are startlingly different in presenting the same story. To understand those differences is to understand why La Haine is acclaimed.
Maybe I should have rephrased the question and asked people why they like it? I mean I liked it….but why is it considered a great film?
The story may have been a breakthrough in French cinema at the time but it certainly wasn’t a breakthrough in World cinema.
@ Santino:
Ironically I found the characters rather stereotypical….the wise Humbert who counsels against violence, the loose cannon Vincent who’s itching to “kill a pig” and the comical “not as tough as he thinks he is” Said. They were all types rather than full fledged characters. But if the characters resonated with you than maybe I wasn’t seeing them clearly.
@ Peabody:
I agree with what you said…the key to understanding any film is to appreciate how it tells a similar story in a different way. But I’m not sure La Haine told the story in a different way……right down to the predictable albeit shocking ending.
Again…I liked the film…I thought it was powerful…..on a very OK level.
“The story may have been a breakthrough in French cinema at the time but it certainly wasn’t a breakthrough in World cinema.”
you’re saying that cultural/geographical specificity have no bearing on whether a film is breaking new ground? “disenfranchised youth? pff, been done. yeah, in a now-distant generation within a totally different culture. so what? been. done.”
“The story may have been a breakthrough in French cinema at the time but it certainly wasn’t a breakthrough in World cinema.”
Was not that the point of the film? To discuss things that had not been discussed in French cinema before?
RGrimes
Now I just watched La Haine last evening….or rather early this morning since I started it at 1:00 in the morning.
While I found the film competently made I did not find it the masterpiece that some are claiming it to be. Nor did I find it particularly revelatory or ground breaking.
Yes..France is a multicultural country…..but this is true of most of Europe and the United States….nothing new about the struggles of different races of people have trying to assimilate. Nothing new about the pent up frustrations and disenfranchisement felt by the youth of all cultures……..and nothing new about the bleak existence of those living in the projects.
I knew 10 minutes in to the film that it would end in tragedy……..because that’s the formula. There was the stock character who is smarter than everyone else (in this case Hubert) and dreams of a life beyond his current one….
Another poster on here reminded me of the similarities to Spike Lee’s Do The Right Thing….which is an excellent comparison. It always shares DNA with Rebel Without a Cause and West Side Story for that matter.
I’m interested in how others perceive this film…the pros and cons.
I’m always extremely glad I did not blind buy this on Criterion as I was contemplating doing a few months back.