I agree, I thought IRON MAN was the better film. Favreau has turned out to be a solid commercial filmmaker, something which American movies are really lacking these days, especially when people like Spielberg drift away from what made them great. CATCH ME IF YOU CAN was his last truly great mainstream film since E.T. It’s really unfortunate that these days American movies lack directors comparable to people like Curtiz, Keighley, McCarey, Walsh, and the plethora of old-hand studio directors. Shyamalan, Nolan, Fincher, Bay et al. just feel like watered down tea compared to others (Burton, Favreau, etc.) who can actually tell a story. It’s unfortunate that the business model of American movies at the moment prevents the creation of quality, mainstream entertainments.
Iron Man was a better due to two words: Marvel Studios.
Saving Private Ryan Rich Uncle Skeleton?
also have you seen The Curious Case of Benjamin Button and Zodiac???? I’m not saying they are amazing films or anything but they are definitely way way better than Iron Man. The only film that Jon Favreau has directed thus far that is good is Elf. And thats only because of Will Ferrell, who in my opinion is ridiculously hilarious.
Entertainment is relative. I don’t find this film entertaining, it’s trying too hard to be entertaining.
I’d say it was actually trying too hard to be too deep and serious, elevating the Comic Book Hero Genre into art but only loading on the faux darkness to such an extent that I started to feel that someone really should just sit Bruce Wayne down and suggest that he seek professional help.
But no. I must not say such things. THE DARK KNIGHT is the greatest film ever made. It will outlast Orson Welles and Hitchcock and Shakespeare and the Bible and Cervantes. Thinking otherwise will mark me as a hopeless snotty elitist who listens to portishead and appreciates Tarkovsky and Bergman and Fellini, all of those whose work is now irrelevant in the wake of the majesty of THE DARK KNIGHT.
I must think like all others. I must think like all ofthers. I must think like all others. I must think like all others.
Breaking news:
Coma victim restored to consciousness after hearing Christian Bale’s Batman Voice from THE DARK KNIGHT
POSSUM TROT, KY — Lisa Jane Mullowsky, 57, comatose for 25 years after a car accident, has been restored to consciousness by the life-giving genius of the film THE DARK KNIGHT.
“I don’t usually cotton to that kind of movie, THE SOUND OF MUSIC’s more my cup of tea,” Mullowsky, mother of 10 children said on Monday. “But I’ll never forget that it was the sound of Christian Bale’s altered voice in THE DARK KNIGHT that restored light to my darkness. Praise THE DARK KNIGHT!! Praise the sound technicians who made Bale’s voice reach the exact frequency to re-activate my until-then dead brain tissues!”
Christian Bale could not be reached for comment.
i’m sorry Tom, but you seem like you have nothing worth while to say. All I’ve seen you do is bash other people on this forum and not write anything of significant value.
It was definitely overhyped and overrated. I thought Batman Begins was far superior and had a better storyline. Heath Ledger was brilliant, but it was no Ennis Del Mar. I must admit, I enjoyed Dark Knight much more on the second viewing. Aaron Eckhart’s performance was great. Iron Man was much better, though. That film deserved the hype it got, and Robert Downey’s performance as Tony Stark outshined Ledger’s Joker, in my mind.
Bristol, I have never bashed another person on this forum. Ever. I have expressed negative opinions about certain specific films and directors, of course. But I have never bashed anyone on these forums.
And you’re hardly setting any standards for positive behavior around here. Telling someone that they are “freaking ridiculous” and need to “grow the fuck up dude” and expressing the thought that “(s)ucking cock on the forums of a website can only mean one thing in your true life” don’t exactly make you the Arbiter of Online Behavior.
Kevin, I’m sorry, I don’t speak emoticon. Did you just use Marvel Studios as evidence of quality?
They have produced one good movie, IRON MAN, and otherwise shown a consistent lack of respect for their characters and their audiences for years. I want this whole Avengers plan to turn out great, as much as anyone, but the odds aren’t good.
C’mon Tom, the only ones saying things like “perfect” and “the greatest film ever made”, are you and the other detractors. These are ridiculously exaggerated and subjective terms, like “overrated”, they don’t mean anything.
You wrote, “I’d say it was actually trying too hard to be too deep and serious, elevating the Comic Book Hero Genre into art but only loading on the faux darkness to such an extent that I started to feel that someone really should just sit Bruce Wayne down and suggest that he seek professional help.”
Comic books are an art form. If you don’t think that a film based on a comic book can be art, then THE DARK KNIGHT was never going to work for you. Comic fans are notoriously defensive when it comes to our books being categorized as childish or low brow, or in this case a lesser form than film.
I think, I’m having a hard time reconciling that someone could claim to be a fan of these characters and not like this film. It’s a film for adults, that heavily references some of the best material written about Batman and The Joker, and the complex relationship that has evolved between them, and their world.
So, my question for you is, what do you like about Batman and The Joker, that you didn’t get from this film?
And, if you didn’t care about them before this, then why do you care if the fans love the film?
The choice of IRON MAN over THE DARK KNIGHT is pretty much about which character you like more, and a choice of tone. Both were more accurately realized on screen than they probably ever will be again. Never mind that Tony Stark is Marvel’s version of Bruce Wayne. But, Batman was always meant to be darker, the title says it all. If you wish it were lighter and funnier, then you have IRON MAN. You also have Burton’s, Schumacher’s, and Adam West’s takes on The Batman. Enjoy. I won’t think less of you.
“They have produced one good movie, IRON MAN, and otherwise shown a consistent lack of respect for their characters and their audiences for years.”
Because they didn’t have their own studio for previous films, they didn’t have the liberty to create films the way they wanted. When DC does, we’ll talk, till then, no show.
It’s a great achievement. F U all.
Point taken, Kevin. I really do want them to get it right, and I would love for DC to try for The JLA, what Marvel is attempting for The Avengers.
Ah, Number 6. I never said that a comic book can’t be an art form. I said that THE DARK KNIGHT isn’t a good movie. I couldn’t care less if fans love the film. I didn’t. I never characterized comics as being childish or lowbrow. I never would. I do, however, characterize this particular film as working way too hard to be way too significant and having an entertainment level somewhere below that of Auschwitz footage. I felt that it bit off more than it could chew. It was so concerned with showing that it was a Serious Film that it never really got around to actually being a Serious Film.
I liked the Joker a lot. I thought he was a brilliant creation of Ledger’s and of the entire creative team. I found the Batman to be a total bore, especially as embodied by Christian Bale in a staggeringly lifeless performance.
For what its worth, I wasn’t all that crazy about IRON MAN, either.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that I just didn’t think THE DARK KNIGHT was a very good movie. The storytelling seemed very clumsy, the story just lurched along. I never gave a damn about Bruce Wayne, and found the ceaseless lectures from Alfred about What Batman Means to be more than a bit tiresome.
Moving on. Enjoy THE DARK KNIGHT y’all.
If comic books are a respected art form, they’ll cancel Watchmen. I honestly couldn’t care less for the Avengers, but I’m still excited to see the movie. I also have my fingers crossed on them getting X-Men back so they can give it a better go. It is a shame that DC is held back, because there are plenty of great characters that could be given fantastic films in this day and age.
If DC were really cool, they’d be rolling out flicks for Vertigo.
*And I mean more flicks. I don’t count Alan Moore’s stuff, as he doesn’t either.
I think TDK is overrated on imdb, then again who takes there top 250 list seriously. The site is run by fanboys who have never seen or heard of Tarkovsky, Malick, Ozu, etc… But as a life long batman fan I did enjoy it. To see the material treated with respect and a level of realism really connected with me. I normally abhor most blockbusters but TDK is a solid entertainment. In an age of CGI porn, heres a film that relied on practical stunts. I couldn’t beleive that when there was an explosion in the film it was acutally real. Also the cinematography was great and not that over colorised DI garbage that every film uses now, plus the cast was uniformally great. And I was glad that it wasnt just a set up for a sequel, the film did surprised me at times.
BTW Iron Man is another good entertainment but IMO inferior to TDK. Unnecessary CGI (if Iron Man is just standing there he was CGI when the real suit looked much better) and while Robert Downey was great he was playing himself. On top of this it followed a simple pattern of other comic book movies. We shouldn’t discount its relevance becuase it was fun, but it lacked the punch and aesthetic skill of TDK for me.
I especially liked the part when the Joker had to explain to Batman that they are two halves of a single identity. “We’re doubles,” or “We’re alike, you and I,” or some such nonsense. Very subtle screenplay. After all, we’re just a bunch of collective nitwits who need to be spoon fed such dime store symbolism like strained carrots.
I also thought isolating the Joker in the shadows when he delivered his Oscar-worthy monologue was ingenious. Don’t try telling me that’s never been done before. I’ll just refuse to believe you.
As for Batman’s voice, it wasn’t so much audio manipulation as the inevitable result of hormone replacement therapy.
Thanks to Criterion for still allowing me to post in spite of the dictatorial mandates of others!
I think Burton’s first is better and darker than the Nolan films completed so far, and I am always perplexed when critics lump Nicholson’s Joker in with, like, Romero’s as the “goofy” Jokers.
Anyone notice how many citizens Nicholson’s Joker gasses to death without a second thought? With a smile on his face, for that matter? Life is actually cheap in the Burton version, and Nicholson’s Joker embodies that whereas Nolan’s Joker apparently read a lot of books about anarchy and is happy to recite theory from them. Over and over and over…
Nolan is talented. I think and hope we’ve yet to see the best installment from him yet.
I heard so much talk about this film, so I finally watched it on X-mas day. I fell asleep. That’s my review.
I don’t really understand why the symbolism in TDK would be anything other than basic and obvious. I don’t see it as anything other than an ambitious summer blockbuster whose first order of business is to entertain and second to add some level of social commentary no matter how clunky some might interpret it to be. I think the fact that it had any philosophical concepts in it at all is impressive considering the average comic book movie is an excuse for the explosions and CGI that has been previously mentioned. The power of the joker in the film doesn’t come from the cliched phrases he spouts, it comes from the intensity of Heath Ledger’s performance. Everything has to be viewed within context. If you placed TDK up against cinema classics, then it comes off as simplistic and derivative. If you place it against movies of its own kind, then it is an impressive achievement. I think TDK deserves praise because its one of the greatest comic book movies ever created, and one of the most entertaining blockbusters in recent memory.
I thought I’d enter the discussion since I finally watched this last night. I’ve never been a fan of superhero movies and this one didn’t convert me, perhaps I hold an unconquerable prejudice toward them, I don’t know. I found many faults throughout the film that I couldn’t look past:
For example, when the Joker drives the bus out of the bank and pulls into the bus line, wouldn’t the driver he pulled in front of think, “hmm, that’s strange, that bus just pulled out of a building and there are no kids aboard”? This may be one of those suspension of disbelief moments, but when a film like TDK immerses itself so willingly into realism any criticism of it from a realistic perspective is valid.
Another thing that bothered me was the poor transformation of Dent’s character into the sociopath Two-Face. I don’t buy that Dent would be so easily turned to a killing spree by the Joker, he may have suffered a great loss but with his history of doing the “right thing” I find his sudden turn to killing those around him to be unbelievable, especially the fact that he lets the Joker go without giving him as much as a scratch.
Then there was the anti-climactic climax with the sappiest prisoner’s dilemma I’ve ever seen. The inmate throwing the switch out the window after his righteous little speech seemed to be a lame way to build tension. I don’t think a superhero film can use such a poorly written device as its climax, these types of movies need the action to be focused on the villain and the hero and I found myself not caring about the people on the boats because I just wanted to get back to what was happening with Batman and Joker.
Plus, the only two interesting characters in the entire film both were killed off in the most unspectacular ways – Ledger’s death and Dent’s fall from grace. I’m not going to blame TDK for the Ledger part, but Dent’s death was left so ambiguous, I didn’t find out he was dead until I did a web surf and found an article quoting Eckhart, I think, that Dent was in fact dead. After building his character as a sudden villain hellbent on revenge it was very disappointing to see it end in such a dull way, and don’t get me started on Gordon’s family or Gordon himself, I love Oldman but his role in the Batman films has proven to be the most boring aspect since he is given no character development and left playing the cliched good cop with the nice family.
Furthermore, there was the terrible dialogue that all the non-name actors were given: “Have a nice trip, see you next fall,” “That’s not good! That’s NOT good!” and I won’t forget the terribly delivered off-camera remark “Things are worse than ever!” which made me want to hit the mute button for the rest of the way. Plus there was the almost Michael Bay-like scene of the kids pretending to use their fingers as pistols, then the cars explode behind them and Batman comes speeding along.
So, yeah, can’t say I liked it, even Ledger’s part I didn’t find too compelling. It seems silly to me to place something like Batman in a realistic environment, making it out to be a hard-edged crime drama when it should be a tongue-in-cheek action flick. Maybe it’s just me, but if I saw a guy running around in a bat costume beating up bank robbers I’d fall over laughing, so I think I’ll stick with Burton’s version, at least I won’t have to sit through 2 1/2 hours of hackneyed political allegory. And is it just me, or does Batman’s voice sound a helluva lot like Gob Bluth?
“at least I won’t have to sit through 2 1/2 hours of hackneyed political allegory”
I hear that.
Absolutely not. !
Well, I do think it is overrated but just a bit, since I think it’s more like the kind of superhero film I wanted to watch. I mean, I think that if someone wants to see a film about tired heroes with real lifes and feelings and such, he/she should try with Saving Private Ryan, I mean, Batman isn’t supposed to be human, that’s what makes comicbook heroes cool, they ain’t cops like in The Departed who cry and dislike what they do, they’re actually cops’ backup, and though I think it’s kinda nice to see their human side, superhero flicks shouldn’t focus on that side, but rather on the action and things blowin’ up. Also, I think the film was a nice meditation on chaos and fear spread in society, making everyone fight for their lives and become more selfish and colder than they usually are, but that there also may be hope in unselfish heroes like Batman and even the people you’d expect it less, like the inmates in the boat (Though the scene is unlikely to happen, it has a very nice message). So, summarizing, it’s a cool film, maybe one of the coolest action films I’ve seen in a while, but not an undying (though it may survive the years) classic that proves that Hollywood has a chance to make art ever again.
Yeah, Dark Knight was kinda fun, but when a film starts asking much more than it can answer for, it’s time to edit. It sure looks nice and I give it props for not using music during that chase scene, but I don’t see what the huge goddamned deal was? It was a superhero movie, it’s riddled with holes, and people treat it like the second coming. There were just better films this year.
Not the sort of thing I would see myself, in any case, but for the record, the people I know who went, hated it! Not one of them could sit through it! Talk about having your hopes dashed…
The movie is great and deeply thought out. Some reasons:
- Batman as almost a kind of sin eater? A great original take on the character
- Not giving the Joker a backstory? Awesome. Having a backstory just detracts from the character. Like Nicholson’s Joker was just a gangster who after losing his grip on reality from a chemical bath, lost nerve endings, and bad reconstructive surgery decided to take the world down with him. The Animated Series Joker had a better one as he was basically already the Joker before Batman dropped him into the chemical vat. The clownish aspects were just his way of reconciling his appearance with society. Ledger’s Joker is just the character boiled down to his essence: A mass-murdering, psychopath with no conscious who does everything for his own amusement and just dresses and sometimes acts like a clown in order to reconcile his monstrous appearance with the society that he antagonizes.
- A villain who “wins” no matter what you do? Awesome. Stop him? He still had his fun and either has something going on or will soon create some more chaos to amuse himself. Beat the shit out of him? He thinks your funny. Kill him outright? He still had fun and he made you stoop down to his level, even if only temporarily. I really hope they bring Joker back in the sequel just so we can have Harley Quinn.
Kevin Salyers
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