Ergodic Film Project Funding

Alright guys, it’s time to start talking about this very seriously and getting it all together. We essentially have all of the segments we need (minus TheGamgee’s, which may be replaced soon, or returned to later, either/or) and we’ve got to get them into production ASAP so that we can get the ball moving.

Previously questions of funding have been part of the regular communications thread but it’s time to put it under scrutiny and talk seriously about it. We have agreed that we are going to be doing crowdfunding as an approach, but I have two things to launch off from from that concept.

1) If we’re going to do crowdfunding, it means more than just opening up a page. We need to make a video/infomercial/advertisement for it, we need to secure some “prizes” for different levels of donations, we need to ensure a distribution of some form that the funders can see, and so on.

I can make a video just fine, or anyone else can if they’re interested. It should be between 30 seconds and 3 minutes long, no longer.

-If this thing is going on DVD, this must be settled NOW. We have to secure a DVD printer and offer the DVDs to funders (say, over $20 or $25 or something similar).

-We could do tee-shirts. Someone would have to design the tee-shirts. Someone would have to print the tee-shirts. Someone would have to ship the tee-shirts.

-Of course we’ll be “giving credit”, but what does that mean? How do we get people involved in the project? How do we make them feel it’s their project?

What other prizes can we offer? They can be sequitor or non-sequitor-props from the movie. Little plastic flippy frogs. What would people expect?

-Keep in mind that this project is going to live on a website and is not-for-profit. We cannot offer people tickets to screenings. We can offer them, say, access to a Wiki connected to the website. After we have the initial project completed, remember, we have the option of expanding it so that people keep building on its premise. Perhaps funders over a certain amount get a vote towards acceptance of subsequent segments. And so on.

-Multiple segments. I’ve put forth the idea of funding the project as a whole, and funding it in parts. Like always, both have their pros and cons. If we fund the project as a whole we have to decide how precisely to disseminate the funds and in a way that makes each segment equally secure in its production. If we fund the project in separate segments, potential funders may be turned off by trying to decide between 11 different segments, as well as some segments may end up getting fully funded while others fall behind. These are things to think about.

2) BEYOND crowdfunding.

I asked you guys for submissions of budget as well as personal bios, and I got very little—only three people responded, and Dandara was the one who had fully fleshed out a professional budget proposal and marketing campaign. I can see why she hasn’t been able to do more because she’s done as much as she currently can.

I’ve been researching grants and it’s a very slow process. Even if we get any, we cannot expect, really, to receive them within the next couple of months. Still I believe that grant proposals are necessary to the production. I think it is that type of production.

I am trying personally to get my own segment funded independently of the Project. If it doesn’t happen it doesn’t happen and I’ll search for crowdfunding. The general rule of thumb so far has been to treat your segments like that, but it’s time to get more serious. Now that you guys know what your project is and have been putting it together, I need to know what you need, and I need to know it now. I also need to know where you are, who you are working with, how you are going about shooting it, because then I can try to contact people in your area for help. You all should be doing this too.

3) Other ideas.

This is a discussion space, it’s not a work space. The work happens outside of this discussion space. Here you put forth some ideas on how to fund your project. We talk about it. Outside of this thread you try it, or not. But let’s get this discussion going and hear some more ideas on what to do.

Pre-production is pretty much over. We’re at the funding stage, and then we go into production. It’s time.

—PolarisDiB

That strikethrough shouldn’t be there. Ghosts of the coding machine.

—DiB

For prizes you could possible give away the original art me and an illustration student friend have done for my segment

You could use cafepress for t-shirts

I could protect some kind of content on the website made available only to funders, if you’d all like to do that

I think it would be better for just one page, it’s already hard enough to promote just one page, let alone several, plus it would be more like contributing to the ergodic cinema project as a whole rather than just another short film, and yeah the possibility of some segments not being supported as much as others isn’t good

In terms of my own segment, I have a few ideas for funding, too early to say anything though, but I will post any developments and I’ll get to work on a detailed budget

Yes, if anybody’s interested in giving away certain production based prizes, go ahead and mention it. If not, no worries.

If we put protected content on the site, it’d certainly have to be attractive. Perhaps some making-ofs, production journals (individual, unlike the one for the project as a whole under Production Notes), etc…

I think you’re right about the one page.

—PolarisDiB

Wow I just saw this topic, thanks for bringing it up, DiB and yeah, I agree we need to get concrete about this now.

Since I am totally new to this, can I ask for clarification re: the “just one page” comment — you mean one web page for our crowdfunding campaign? I haven’t looked closely enough at Indiegogo to see how that is set up, i.e. I’ve never looked past the first page of the projects I looked at there.

But I agree — we should keep the design of this, all of it — web page, funding, etc etc, as simple and straightforward as possible. Particularly because this idea is new and people tend to say “the Ergodic what?” whenever I’ve talked to them about it. In reality it’s not that complicated of an idea but I’ve found among people I know that just the word “Ergodic” tends to trip them up and they get confused and ask me to explain in plain language.

With any promoting we do for this project, we need to make our explanations only as wordy as they absolutely must be, or it will be hard to get people who are really busy to pay much attention. I know that sounds like “dumbing it down,” but it isn’t — it’s just speaking to a level that everyone can understand without having to take a lot of time to read.

That being said, we need to discuss yes in greater detail how we want to market this, what is catchy and enticing in terms of bringing people to our project page and getting them interested. That’s a bit of an art, but I find it’s all in how you present the information. The more cumbersome the view, the less time people will want to spend on learning about what we are doing.

Speaking of which, do we want to decide on a title for this collaborative movie that does not include the word “ergodic?” I am wondering if we can create a title based on our theme of “search, death, rebirth.” The ergodic structure can be explained wherever we start to talk about the movie and its origins, etc. etc.

“I know that sounds like “dumbing it down,” but it isn’t "

It’s marketing. Yes.

IndieGoGo has a separate page for each project separated into tabs Homepage, Updates, Comments, and Funders (I believe pretty much one for one the same with Kickstarter). If we opened “separate pages” it would be Ergodic Project: Letters and Ergodic Project: Missing, etc, as well as possibly Ergodic Project: Administration, Ergodic Project: Distribution. But I feel it’s pretty clear we’re not going to do that, as it will provide clutter for our marketing and overwhelm potential funders, as well as turn a few off.

—PolarisDiB

Ah, ok, that makes sense yes — let’s keep it to one page, I agree.

Ok people, I’m going to make a suggestion here. Rather than going back and forth on the internet, why don’t we do a Skype session on a weekend and discuss this? I think this is a topic that would be better handled this way as it is urgent and the internet is too passive a system for quick responses, and quick delegation (because one can choose to “get back to this later” and then forget to do so, it happens to all of us).

So… let’s arrange for a Skype session and help DiB out — it’s in all of our interest to get this baby moving faster once and for all.

RESPONSES, please. :)

P.S. And it would be nice for everyone to come forward and be seen and heard in real time, with real voices and faces — so far I’m the only one (via my status video for this upcoming Production Note) who’s overcome my natural shyness regarding communication with strangers — no fair guys, I can’t be the only one who’s been unmasked!

suresure

Bump

Everyone else out there, I need to hear from you.

I’m down for a Skype session. I don’t think EVERYONE needs to get involved but I’d prefer it, as it would be helpful for motivation. In terms of cohesion, however, it may turn into a jumble of voices.

Anyway, I might have plans this weekend (including dropping off script production office side…) so if this happens I need to know stat.

—DiB

JP, Roboko — can you make it to a Skype session for this weekend? Anyone else want to participate?

I think if we make an outline of what we are going to talk about, such as you have done up there, we can definitely conduct it as a business meeting, DiB. I can help keep things on track, no problem.

DiB — if no one else can do it, I’d be up for a Skype session this weekend. Can always coordinate another the following week to see if more people can make it.

So yeah, if it’s possible for you, let’s reserve a day to start — how does Saturday work?

We should keep it to one funding page for the product as a whole because as someone mentioned before, everyone’s singular movement floating around the site would look a lot less monumental than a complete project involving many filmmakers.

As far as prizes go, if I have any production memorabilia left over, I am willing to give up some in order to help the project get funded. Extra content on the site is also another good idea mentioned, though, it’s hard to say what type of content is really worth making people pay the extra buck(s). Maybe we could give the people who pay extra DVD copies of the film which could come with all kinds of special features that the site won’t have?

I am fine with the funding for my project as of now, but if anything comes up I will contact whoever I need to about getting grants.

Maybe as a introduction video we could all say a few things about the project and our shorts and edit them together so the people funding can get an idea of who we are and hear about it directly from the filmmakers involved.

Also, I don’t know if this is the place to talk about it, and it has been mentioned before somewhere on one of the many Ergodic Film Project threads, but are we going to submit this film into a film festival? I think that would be kind of exciting and helpful to all the filmmakers if it is received well.

I am down for a Skype session so I will be sending everyone involved my skype username.

Saturday works fine, Odi. It’ll be night here but I certainly won’t be anywhere else, since I have work the next day (weeks here are Sunday to Thursday, since Friday is holy day).

Would love to have you present, Tremolo.

Okay everyone, I agree. One project page for funding, and I think I’ve decided how much we’re going to need… somewhat more arbitrarily than I’d like, but there’s logic behind it. I’m sort of seeing if I can’t find data on what projects get successfully fully funded from those sites in order to see if I can fit a number into that framework, but basically with the $3000 required for Dandara’s project and the fact that we cannot have the same for every project (else risk a $33K starting price, which is much more than we can really expect to receive via crowdfunding), I’m halving the starting price to about $16-$18K. I worry that having it over $10K might be too much, but I can tell you guys right now $10K isn’t enough.

Tremolo, I believe DVDs will need to be made and distributed to people who’ve funded the project, as well as to festivals. I believe they should contain instructions on how to play a randomized option for one go-through of the movie, OR that festival submitted DVDs ought to be standardly randomized or shuffled.

Right then! Think about things like this, and let’s talk on Saturday.

—DiB

Ok then, Saturday – let’s talk about time. I’m in LA, therefore on Pacific Standard Time. Let’s figure this part out… the farthest I’ve gone around the world with a Skype session is to Italy…

You are 12 hours away from me.

This means that if you’re on at 6am, I’m on at 6pm. Since I can be up until 11pm without too much damage to my work skillz the next day, that means the latest this should happen is 11am your time on Saturday.

—DiB

That’s easy for me to meet. So for those moving eastward here, this will happen anywhere from 12-2 your time.

I’ll send y’all my Skype address today.

I’ll be at the Bonnaroo festival this Saturday so I won’t be able to attend the Skype session :( I’ll probably be high on something anyways so I probably wouldn’t even be much help lol

Personally, I do not need any additional funding for my segment so I believe the funding should only go to those who really need it. No sense in jacking up the fundraising amount, that will just make it harder. As far as incentives go for people to contribute money to the project, that’s a tough one. There is always the choice of giving them an Executive Producer credit along with copies of the film on DVD. Other than that, I don’t know…it’s not like I can say “Have a meet and greet with RYAN ESTABROOKS” because they’ll be like “Who the fuck is that?” lol Without having any sort of star power or big budget, we may have to get really creative with the incentives.

I do think we should take this to film festivals if possible. The story behind this project is very intriguing and that definitely helps. Plus, of course, the film will be something special as well. As always, I just want as many people to see this thing as possible. The internet helps obviously because of it’s reach but having some sort of presence at film festivals will only help ALL of us. Plus, maybe we’ll all get to hang out in REAL LIFE!

Yes to hanging out in REAL LIFE! :D

We need to decide on a time, and soon. I say it must be over no later than 11pm for my mental health, which is 11am Odi’s time. Otherwise I am literally available whenever.

—DiB

@DiB — I thought it was set that we were doing this at 11pm your time/11am mine? If not, let’s make it for then.

And… I will send my Skype address to all today, sorry meant to do that yesterday…

Oh, and everyone who can attend, please come with whatever questions/solutions/thoughts you have on the discussion initiated by DiB above.

IMPORTANT

Roboko, Tremolo, Kate anyone else on the team who wants to attend, plus Luis A.:

We’ve changed the meeting time on Skype to 10:00 am Pacific Standard Time.

Please let me know if that’s a bad time for any of you. It will be easier for DiB at this time, rather than 11.

Thanks!

My Skype screenname is the same, everybody.

—DiB

You are the man of consistency, DiB! :)

Ok everyone, these are the people who can definitely attend tomorrow aside from myself:

DiB, Kate, Tremolo, Roboko, Santropez

I’ve sent you all my Skype name — Kate and Santropez. just waiting to hear back from you so I can know yours.

Luis A. will get back to me by tomorrow about whether or not he can attend.

Just wanted to give you all an update.

“Ok everyone, these are the people who can definitely attend tomorrow aside from myself:”

AICH, just to be clear, “tomorrow” is Saturday in this sentence, right? ‘Cause it’s 1am Friday here, which means it’s not yet Friday there, which means you saying “tomorrow” means Friday your time… and I’m not available Friday, I’m available Saturday….

(Stoopid Earth be all big and round, causing problems in international communication).

—DiB

YES - Saturday is the day of our meeting.

I had blood drawn today and I think they took some of my brain matter with it.

Sorry about that…

I’ll state it again:

Ergodic Cinema Project Funding meeting is SATURDAY 10am Pacific Standard Time.

Ok everyone, these are the people who can definitely attend aside from myself:

DiB, Kate, Tremolo, Roboko, Santropez

I’ve sent you all my Skype name — Kate and Santropez. just waiting to hear back from you so I can know yours.

Luis A. will get back to me by tomorrow (Friday) about whether or not he can attend.

Apologies for the confusion…