I liked what Ciment had to say about the film, he was especially interesting on the repetitious dialogue in Kubrick’s films, I remember. But that little dream of the unborn son thing, I mean really.
My favorite book on Kubrick is Thomas Allen Nelson’s INSIDE A FILM ARTIST’S MAZE, for what that’s worth. Haven’t checked it in a while, I should see what he has to say about the “dream” thing.
Thanks for the recommendation. I’ve read Walker and Raphael but not Nelson.
going off on a tangent- have you read Ray Durgnat’s W.R.Mysteries of the Organism in the BFI Classics series, cos that’s one book in the series i fancy reading. I expect like Eyes Wide Shut it should be open to interesting interpretations and psychological analysis, and Durgnat was knowledgeable and perceptive
K — no, haven’t read the Durgnat. Haven’t seen the film.
when i first read the durgnat book i couldn’t understand much of it. but i wasnt yet introduced to the film. after seeing the film, i think the book is brilliant. it mirrors the form of the film itself.
Ah, i’d heard it was the definitive book on the subject, and that now sounds even more interesting: Durgnat’s book on Renoir was one that i found a lot more rewarding second time round. Anyway, thanks, i don’t want to divert further from Eyes Wide Shut.
Eyes Wide Shut is a masterpiece. That said, it’s definitely a movie made for a mature audience (as most of Kubrick’s films).
Have you seen his other films? People seem to focus on the nudity in this film, but I don’t think it’s the nudity alone that makes people uncomfortable with it….and it’s supposed to make you uncomfortable. The film digs into some dark areas of the psyche. It’s actually based on a novel written by a friend of Freud. It’s hard to judge if by being fifteen, you’re ready, or not ready for Eyes Wide Shut. Fifteen is a different place for different people. If you’re mature enough to seek out this film for it’s content, and not for the fact that it contains nudity, then I think you’ll probably be ok watching it. Keep in mind that some scenes are a bit shocking and disturbing. Some of the images have haunted me a little from time to time. If it gets to be too intense you can always just turn it off, and go back and watch it when you feel you’re ready.
Second the recommendation of Nelson’s book.
In a sane society, we could all walk down the street starkers without fear of arrest, imprisonment, shame, disgrace or even embarrassment. .
If viewers are more uncomfortable with female bodies being exposed as possible exploitation, that’s a different matter. Kubrick was certainly not one to shy away from female nudity in his films- there’s also The Shining, Barry Lyndon, A Clockwork Orange….this may raise questions about his attitudes as well as modern society/ies.
The “orgy scene” made me fall in love with Cinema !!!
the orgy scene made my stomach turn a little bit. i’ve been at orgy scenes like that. it reminded me of the horribly empty, soulless feeling one gets at the end of those outings.
Well, this is what I really wanted to say: from the moment in which Bill Harford (T. Cruise) leaves the taxi to the moment in which one of the girls that took part to the ceremony talks to him… I realized that cinema is superior to every other art.
i’d love to hear exactly what it was that gave you this feeling. aesthetically speaking.
Wow!
Hi Leah. What a wacky coincidence. I am actually the clerk who wouldn’t rent the film to you.
In truth, I didn’t even see what title you were renting, I was just bored as hell that night, and thought it would be fun to fuck with you.
Sorry about all the confusion.
… And incidentally, I’ve never even heard of the movie you guys are getting so excited about.
Sincerest regards,
-Henry Krinkle (Blockbuster employee # – 76439)
@ Bobby Wise:
The mysterious atmosphere before Bill Harford entered the hall. The cerimony. The disposition of the women around the master of cerimonies. The music. The unicity of what was happening on the screen and the way this was “framed” by Kubrick.
For a 16 years old person, films like that could be really fascinating. Now that I am 20, I still can’t find a film with such a “strange” and mysterious episode.
That sequence impressed me so much that I realized that there are no books, no poetries, no symphonies, no paintings/sculptures and no buildings… able to tell that kind of things. What an unbelieveable experience it was!
It’s an okay film, moves a bit too slowly for my liking, definitely not Kubrick’s best.
One thing about the orgies and ceremonies, very disturbing. The way Kubrick wanted it.
“I find his very non-realistic handling of night-time lighting one tip-off; the moonlight streaming through the curtains is a lovely blue that is theatrical visual shorthand for night … and nothing at all like reality. No one has lit a movie with that kind of look since Jack Asher was DP on the early Hammer Gothics”
Yeah, I agree. This and the other “unrealistic” aspects of the film (of which there are many) suggest that something else has been going on. But the distinction between dream and reality is meant to be blurry.
In the scheme of things, the nudity in the film really isn’t that bad.. The subject, is a bit touchy for a 15 year old, but whatever.. American film censorship is prude and protective compared to most countries. Take Spain, for example.. A country which was totally turned around after the war— this is why they view violence and gore much more seriously than sex (the way it should be). Look for it at your local library, they may have it and probably wont ask for your age.
I would like to point out that the BFI Classics series on Eyes Wide Shut was not written by Michael Ciment but Michel Chion. I have read a number of posts now that mistakenly quote Ciment as the source. Not that the book doesn’t have its own merits but I wouldn’t want the “unborn baby boy” reading of the movie to be associated with Ciment, whose writings on Stanley have been pretty much unimpeachable at this point. I didn’t pre-judge Chion’s reading of the film, but his theory on the film’s subjective source/POV/audience was never backed up, all that was stated was the film was being dreamt by the Harford’s unborn baby boy, and nothing was offered from within the film as back-up for this reading. However I do think its healthy for people to follow through with their own interpretations of cinema.
I will take this space to recommend Michael Ciments’ Kubrick: The Definitive Edition
as well as the previously mentioned Kubrick: Inside A Film Artists Maze by Thomas Allen Nelson.
Now I just need to start saving up for Taschen’s nearly 3000 page collection of Stanley Kubrick’s Napoleon archival material, which promises to be mind-blowing. AND BETTER BE since it’s priced between $500-$600!
EWS is a masterpiece, not just my favorite Kubrick but possibly my favorite film period. One of those films that I enjoy reading about and analyzing myself from time to time, but when it comes down to it it’s the visceral reaction I get from it that makes it so amazing. The ‘feel’ of it is unlike anything else… absolutely mesmerizing.
i actually thought eyes wide shut was really tame for what i had heard before going in. i’ve definitely seen worse.
the movie as a whole is just great though.
Sorry, all, I really thought Ciment had written the BFI monograph on EYES WIDE SHUT.
Per Homer Simpson — DOH!
Speaking of Vertigo, the wide-angle depth perspective cinematography Hitchcock used seems to have influenced Eyes.
I recently saw this for the 20-somethingth time, and I picked up on so much new. I have always thought the whole film was pretty much about Bill’s insecurities and him being emasculated, among other things, and there are so many subtle things that imply this. When he gets home from work the day after the orgy his wife and daughter are doing math and the quote is something like “If Joe makes (blank) amount of money and John makes (blank) amount of money, and Joe takes half of John’s money how much will John have?” Little subtle things throughout the money always about money, or things like when the group of guys call him faggot and push him to the more obvious things like his wife’s dream.
Solution to this is to buy it on ebay/internet for the price you’d pay to rent. Ratings are ridiculous I bet they’d allow you to pick up something with tons of violence over this and that’s sad.
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Leah: We are all waiting to know if you ever got around to seeing this film yet, after starting the thread sometime ago. If so, what did you think? If not, why not? Thanks.
Well, since 2 months ago, I am no longer a 15 year old that can’t see Eyes Wide Shut. I am now a 16 year old who can’t see Eyes Wide Shut. (sigh). Once I get Netflix, if I ever get netflix, (my parents are sentimental about things like video stores) it will be the very first film I rent!
Kenji
ah, i do have several of the BFI series, but haven’t read that one. It should be a fascinating one, to do justice to the film. Well, i suppose we could all come up with unusual theories- and Kubrick films may be especially fertile ground- but there should be some decent evidence if it’s presented as a serious proposition. Why not have Eyes Wide Shut as a comment that our lives really are a dream, that we cannot prove we exist, may wake up as a purple and pink blob on the planet Zarg, or have our lives terminated as they’re merely the video games of advanced aliens or future humans?
Ciment has a pretty distinguished reputation so it sounds surprisingly batty from him. I’ll have to get hold of his Eyes Wide Shut book now, to suss is out. The Kubrick book is pretty good on main themes in his films, and wins on glossiness and colour.