have seen almost everything
missed his late 60s works and his most recent with Dafoe
thinking Landscape in the Mist was his best
Well,although being Greek,I have seen only two of his films.His first,Reconstruction,which I didn’t like that much,and Travelling Players,which is an absolute masterpiece,my favorite greek film.
I’m really looking forward to seeing his other films.
Theo is the last of the old masters. he is somewhat misunderstood too, i believe, but that’s a different story. The Traveling Players is a masterpiece of world cinema. not just Greek cinema. it’s completely original and totally brilliant. Landscape In The Mist is excellent too. Voyage To Kythera is also great but you have to be famiilar with socio-political climate in modern Greece to really understand it. unlike Landscape or Eternity And A Day, it’s not for the casual viewer.
DENNIS: just curious, where did you see The Hunters and Alexander The Great with English subtitles? at film festivals? i don’t think i’ve ever seen them with English subtitles.
Moderated
In other words, you’re doomed to failure either way!
In other words, you’re doomed to failure either way!
rotflmao ^
D,
you never sound very confident about Angelopoulos:
Why, is the film that obscure?
I haven’t seen any, and the only available ones I can find on dvd are the weeping meadow and the beekeeper are these two worth checking out?
Angelopoulos’ style of filmmaking took some getting used to – that has nothing to do with Greek politics – it is his style.
I would suggest watching a series of films.
I’ve seen four, but I couldn’t suggest an order for his oeuvre.
His work combines intelligence and aesthetics;
hence, he is considered a master of cinema.
All I hear from that message addressed to me is, Dennis u are wrong cause u don’t like what I like, utterly trollish stuff.
I’m just going by imdb.
they list 2 movies from the 60s that I have not heard of .
I got most of his films from euro trash cinema and (when they were in business) video junkie.
I may not know shit about Greek cinema but I know I liked Wildcats better than Traveling Players(:
ALLAN:The Weaping Meadow is actually one of his more accessible films, even though its about Greek history and it’s 3 hours along. it’s not abstract though and it’s lacking the grand metaphors and non-linear plot development of his real historical trilogy. it’s a decent starting point, i guess but i suggest Landscape In The Mist or Eternity And A Day first because they are superior, even if they are ‘simple’ compared to his earlier work. The Beekeeper is a little more complicated. it’s closer to the work of Antonioni in some ways, but still ummistakeably the work of Angelopoulos. there is just a stronger emphasis on the theme of alienation and modern disconnect than usual, because, like Voyage To Cythera, it deals with cultural obsolescence, the death of the ‘old Greece’, and the breakdown of traditional community.
i suggest that anybody wishing to read more about Angelopoulos ought to stay away from Bordwell. his writings on Angelopoulos are painfully mediocre despite the fact that Bordwell is regarded as an ‘expert’ on him. Other critics—like Jameson, Rutherford etc—have written far better journals/books/articles about his films. Bordwell tends to focus too much on Brecht and categorising Theo as an archetypal modernist director when that is only half the story.
ROBERT: agree but i still don’t thnk he has nearly as much exposure as other European masters from his generation.
Ah Dimitris yes the choreography in Electra reminded me a little of the (sometimes studied) musicality of Angelopoulos’ choreography at times, e.g dark figures grouped filling a space, though i wasn’t intending to imply an influence (i was aware Angelopoulos came later), and the styles are quite different. Mizoguchi’s long takes and off screen space were important to Angelopoulos, himself a master of the long take and choreography. I have too many by Angelopoulos still to see due to difficult access, so i shall in the meantime incur Dimitris’ displeasure and show myself up as an ignoramus on the subject by voting for Eternity and a Day, followed by Ulysses’ Gaze as my faves so far. Travelling Players is great and no doubt best appreciated with more than a passing knowledge of Greek history and culture, but i was more emotionally involved in Eternity and a Day, which touched the sublime. I came to really care about the central relationship, it was beautiful and poignant.
“it’s obvious people like Dennis B know shit about Angelopoulos and Greek cinema when they’re:
A: saying Landscape in the Mist is their favorite of his…”
How can you argue preference? Den didn’t say it was his greatest, he said it was his favorite.
It’s amazing that when a person shows an appreciation for a filmmaker, it’s still not good enough.
That’s what happens when people argue just for the sake of arguing. Things move beyond silly and start to become absurdly ironic.
Joks, don’t you find Bordwell’s attention to details of staging very useful, e.g in his book Figures Traced in Light? Anyway he certainly deserves a lot more attention, the lack of availability of several of his films is appalling for such a major director; he’s almost a prophet in the wilderness, maybe not sexy enough.
I’ve only seen Landscape in the Mist, and it was great, but not amazing. It lacked something, and there was a certain contrived quality to it, but I just can’t put my finger on what it is. There were some visually stunning moments, but as a whole it wasn’t as hypnotic as I’d been let on.
I want to watch The Travelling Players next, it seems the consensus is that it’s his best film. I only know the very basics of Greek history from 1939-67, just the little I’ve read on gulp Wikipedia.
How do we all feel about Ulysses’ Gaze? Because I may watch that after The Travelling Players, either that or Eternity and a Day.
A user on IMDb said The Weeping Meadow is one of the ten best films of the 2000s, so I may check that out too.
“when they’re saying Landscape in the Mist is their favorite of his”
Yes, Den, HOW DARE YOU have an own opinion about film? And to make it worse you had to express that opinion of yours on a Film discussion Forum? It’s unacceptable and unheard of! Next time be a good boy and ask someone first which film you are allowed to like before you come around with your crazy ideas of free thought! :p
Have not seen Landscape in the Mist yet. Days of ’36 is my fav film by Theo, Can’t stand his other films!
The Travelling Players
Very daring approach to history, also it is a masterwork of the long take along with Tarkovsky and Tarr.
I have only seen The Travelling Players (on a shitty VHS, I need to pick up the DVD but funds d not allow it at this time), Eternity and a Day, Ulysses Gaze and The Weeping Meadow. The Travelling Players was one of those films that I feel will require multiple viewings and some research to completely appreciate but it was an immensely rewarding experience and I feel it deserves it’s reputation. I loved Eternity and a Day but did not care for Ulysses Gaze. I will re-watch the latter at some point when I have more of his work to compare and contrast it with. I liked The Weeping Meadow a lot but it’s been a while since I saw it and it seems to be hated by many of those who are very familiar with his early work.
“Anyway he certainly deserves a lot more attention, the lack of availability of several of his films is appalling for such a major director.”
Word up.
I’ve only seen four of his films and I’m eager to check out “Days of 36” and “The Hunters” But from what I’ve seen my favorite has to be “Alexander the Great”. I own “The Weaping Medows” but I haven’t come around to seeing it yet.
Rankend:
1. Alexander The Great
2.The Travelling Players
3. Reconstruction
4. Landscape in he Mist
Dimitris says
“Hardly “obscure” Peabody, but the case is that whoever doesn’t enjoy them, the historic factor will always be present. How to appease one to learn more? By “pre-warning” him / her. kind of a misleading quotation, huh? There’s no other way anyhow, even when discussing his “accessible” works e.g. Beekeeper like the viewer above mentions although it’s a good start like with the carbon mash-up of Weeping Meadow.
Of course, ANYTHING by Angelopoulos surpasses almost everything made by people like…oh, say…Eastwood, so I guess anyone can draw their own conclusions here.
Dimitris says:
“All I hear from that message addressed to me is, Dennis u are wrong cause u don’t like what I like, utterly trollish stuff.”
the fact you like Wildcat more than Travelling Players has nothing to do with taste nor trollish achievements. the fact you probably like people like John Derek more than Angelopoulos though is frightening.
and i’m almost certain you didn’t even bother comprehending Travelling Players, so i’ll firmly suggest (twice) to stay out from Greek cinema. STAY OUT!
notwithstanding the fact Travelling Players is one of the best films of the cup but i don’t want to hijack this thread just to oppose people who have enjoyed less than half of the films of that competition"
Just the ones I’ve seen (which I know makes me completely unworthy of posting)
The Awesome
The Travelling Players
O Megalexandros
The Moving
Voyage to Cythera
O melissokomos
To meteoro vima tou pelargou
The Great, but perhaps less so as time goes by
Eternity and a Day
The Weeping Meadow
The Good
The Hunters
Landscape in the Mist
Reconstruction
The pretty good but really need to try again sometime
Days of 36 (gonna try again with English subs – too much going on for me to follow in Japanese at the time)
To vlemma tou Odyssea (some really nice scenes, take a long time to get over the ‘English’ thing though).
The shorts Angelopoulos works better for me when he’s really long.
Trois Minutes
Broadcast
Edit* Angelopoulos is one of my favorite directors and, even the ‘good’ ones I like more than, um, ‘Eastwood!??’ er…well, quite a lot of other good directors!
Sanjuro, just out of interest, where did you seen Alexander The Great and The Hunters? Because those films are not as easy to find as his other works, especially in English.
I was shocked when i watched Alexander The Great. I didn’t expect it to look that grand.
Regarding availability, Angelopoulos is partially to blame for this, because he doesn’t like home video formats and insists his films be watched on the big screen. It took him years to finally come around on dvd, and when he agreed to supervise transfers for New Star in the mid 00’s, they released 7 titles i think and stopped, even though they advertised the rest. They were 4 titles away from completing the collection(Alexander The Great, Voyage To Cythera, Broadcast and The Hunters) and then they ran out of money apparently. Which is a big shame, because there are no great prints for any of those films around. Voyage To Cythera looks like mud.
KENJI: he has the formal aspects down, i’ll grant you that, but my problem is what he extracts from the visual information. I just think he is too one sided in his analysis.
Let me just give a word of warning to the guys who want to pick up dvd’s later like Mike Spence: Avoid Zone 1 dvd’s at all costs. The prints are shitty. all of them. Best Angelopoulos dvd’s in terms of quality are the New STar ones which are no out of print—available on e-bay though—and the Australian Eternity And A Day and Ulysses Gaze released by Madman. Artificial Eye’s ‘The Weeping Meadow’ and ‘The Beekeeper’ are also worthy, but The Beekeeper is the international cut, which is 20 mins shorter.
Although I have seen very few of his movies, I confidently list him as one of my most favorite filmmakers. Such deep and profound impression have 2 or 3 movies of his left on me :) So far I have seen (listed in the chronology I have seen them, not as most favorite on top of the list):
1) Landscape in the Mist (1988) – fell in love with that movie immediately, and even though first love can often be a little deceiving, it always bears a special place in one’s heart :P:) I also think that this movie is the most appropriate one for starting to get acquainted with Angelopoulos. Even though there is a definite allegorical side of the two children’s journey, I still believe that it can be enjoyed as a straight forward narrative tale, even as an obscure coming of age story if one wishes to simplify it even more… Also, worth mentioning is the little girl’s performance which is one of the best I have ever seen, and her performance is even more appreciated when one has in mind that Angelopoulos’ ’’characters’’ are anything but character driven and they lack any psychologization…
2) Eternity and a Day (1998) – I had been ’’acquainted’’ with that movie long before I saw it via its soundtrack by Eleni Karaindrou (her beautiful music being a key element in any of the Angelopoulos movies I have seen so far, I am very curious to check the movies he did before she started contributing music to his films as the earliest movie of his I have seen is from 1988). Even though I would rank the film as one of the greatest I have ever seen (the bus sequence with its surreal and haunting fusion of image, sound, music, and poetry I would definitely list in my top 10 beautiful scenes in cinema if I was ever going to make such a list), I find the movie far inferior to the next one:
3) Ulysses’ Gaze (1995) – I consider this the best Angelopoulos movie I have seen, although I definitely need to watch it again. I have seen it only once and was so overwhelmed by it that I may be exaggerating its merits :) In a both geographical and historical journey, I was completed flabbergasted by those labyrinths of time he was leading the protagonist through – in single long shots he was so effortlessly transported from one time period to another and from one location to another that I could not help but admire the perfect poetic quality of this flow even though I am so vaguely acquainted with the specific historical references…
4) Trilogy: Weeping Meadow (2004) – I have to admit that this is the most difficult Angelopoulos movie I have seen so far despite the seemingly straight forward manner in which the story is told. I can’t articulate what my problem with that movie is, I will definitely watch it again in the future, and I don’t think the problem is only the lack of knowledge about the historical period in which it is set (as I mentioned above lack of historical knowledge did not prevent me from being mesmerized by ‘’Ulysses’ Gaze’’). Of course, there are some singular haunting images, such as the hung sheep on the trees’ branches, which stand out and are stuck in my mind, but the overall experience lacked the intensity of the previous Angelopoulos films I had seen.
5) The Dust of Time (2008) – first of all, I have to say that this was the first movie by Angelopoulos I saw in a movie theater (besides ‘’To Each His Own Cinema’’ about Cannes’ 60th anniversary to which he contributed a short), and that was a whole new experience (of course I agree that it is always better to watch a movie on the big screen, but I think this becomes especially valid when dealing with such visionary masters as Angelopoulos, the big screen enhancing the virtues and understating the flaws even if the latter are more than the former, I am speaking in general terms, not about ‘’The Dust of Time’’ in particular here). I saw the movie as it was a part of a festival and there were much more people than if it had been a regular screening, and therefore a lot of casual visitors attended who are not familiar with Angelopoulos’ work, and I mean not familiar even only in theory so that they can be at least partially prepared for his filming techniques. The movie must have been a disaster for them, definitely NOT the film to start getting acquainted with Angelopoulos :)) This movie is in Angelopoulos’ oeuvre what is ‘’Inland Empire’’ in David Lynch’s, hard to swallow even for die hard fans… Without doubt, the most ambitious film by Angelopoulos – in structure reminding me of ‘’Ulysses’ Gaze’’ but the historical, geographical, political, casting and any other scale stretched beyond one’s imagination. As usual (if not always) with an artist’s most ambitious work the final result does not live up to its intentions but in the case of ‘’Dust of Time’’ it is definitely not a failure, and with an ambition of such massive proportions managing not to be a failure could be classifies almost as success :)) The scene in the bar where, within a single shot, we see three different generations meet, each seemingly within their own time period, is in my opinion a must-see for everyone interested in the magic of cinema…
Joks. In Japan we have pretty much everything from Angelopoulos on DVD in 4 grand box sets (plus The Weeping Meadow which came out later). We even get full historical liner notes and the documentary Theo on Theo.
I also saw a lot of Angelopous many years ago in London at various venues.
There’s plenty of subtitles scattered around the internet if you look hard enough.
Anyhow, didn’t New Star release The Hunters?
Oh, and I keep hearing about this ‘international cut’ of the Beekeeper. But since only the incredibly inaccurate IMDB has any mention of it, I’ll assume it’s a misprint, or refers to an earlier festival screening.
I’m going to assume this doesn’t exist unless a Greek member (I think I spotted one around…) points out to a ‘Domestic’ version which is indeed 20 minutes longer.
“The scene in the bar where, within a single shot, we see three different generations meet, each seemingly within their own time period, is in my opinion a must-see for everyone interested in the magic of cinema…:
It’s one of the only decent shots in the film though. By his standards, the movie was visually bland IMO. And it’s nowhere near as ambitious as The Travelling PLayers or Alexander The Great.
As for your point about his characters lacking obvious ‘psychologization’, that’s true, but it’s also quite strange when you consider that, in a movie such as Landscape In The Mist, he clearly wants us to emotionally relate/identify with the characters and their journey, yet we have to fil in the blanks ourselves. He isn’t Antonioni in this regard. he doesn’t want us to just observe the characters in their environment with cool detachment. at least not in Landscape In The Mist anyway. The coming of age/maturity allegory is the most popular interpretation of the film, but it’s also the most problematic. if that’s the case, what’ is Angelopoulos saying about children today, Greek or otherwise? That they are rootless? This is one possible explanation. Think of the disconnected hand pulled out of the water for a minute. Is it significant that all the kids—including Oresti, the young adult—are witnessing this seemingly random event? Is the hand disconnected from a statue analogous to children disconnected from a wider integrated culture? Is this a statement about cultural fragmentation? About the breakdown of traditional community? I personally believe that on some level it is, but there is more.
The ‘maturity’ angle is interesting too, esp when you consider that the boy, who was previously shy and lacking in confidence, becomes all assertive at the end, while the young girl recedes into the background.
There are many different ways to look at this film
SANJURO: are the japanese prints any good though? i’ve heard mixed reports.
new star didn’t release The Hunters as far as i’m aware.
debajyoti
what to comment on him!