^^I see your point Jack, but i just took this thread to mean ‘pretty bad’ or ‘pretty mediocre’ directors, rather than truly terrible ones. and i don’t think Howard is terrible. To me he is the very definition of mediocre.
PITCHER OF SUMMER: i get what you mean and appreciate your points but as i said before, if a director keeps messing up on a regular basis, the question is going to be directed towards his talent rather than any kind of studio inference, limitations of source material etc etc. To me that’s just obvious. sure we can overlook the problem of inteference and various other artistic constraints when and if they are relevant, but most directors in the industry are not likely to have their talent undermined repeatedly without ever delivering the goods.
As for Bogo, he is an interesting case. At one point he was one of the most successful new Hollywood directors, then it all went to shit. Sure we can always blame his ego, or his relationship with Cybil, but his fall from grace was pretty tragic-epic. Does anyone here rate Daisy Miller? apart from maybe Den? What about Long Last Love? Even Den hates that one i think hehe.
Definitely “agree to disagree” type thing on Howard then, cant stand his films. If we’re talking mediocre, nothing spring to mind right away.
I saw Halloween III: Season of the Witch recently, and really like it. Tommy Lee Wallace also directed the tv version of It, which was terrible. So maybe this counts.
I wish I could agree regarding Ron Howard, but I’ll happily defend the hell out of Grand Theft Auto :P
To me Howard is like ordinary, generic vanilla ice cream. you know, the cheap kind you used to add chocolate sprinkles to as a kid. I don’t see him as a bad film maker, because he is way too middle of the road for that. and i liked some of his 80’s films, like Gung Ho. He is just kind of there(although he has made some stinkers).
I used to like Halloween 3 quite a bit. changed my mind recently hehe. Good atmosphere though.
Grand Theft Auto is in my all time top 50 so Howard gets a pass, but he would have gotten one anyway for Night Shift, Gung ho and Splash
GUNG HO? no way.
Grand Theft Auto & Splash, sure…Night Shift & Ransom…definite maybes….BUT NO WAY GUNG HO…that was just awful
@JASPAR LAMAR CRABB
I didn’t say Peter Bogdonovich was a terrible director, rather that he clearly had talent yet hadn’t made anything worthwhile since The Last Picture Show. I haven’t seen Saint Jack, Mask is ok, though not particularly well directed, and well, I just don’t think Paper Moon or What’s Up Doc are any good.
^I enjoyed his Tom Petty doc he did a couple years ago.
I have heard very good things about that. I’m starting to feel bad for beating up on him in the first place.
I wouldn’t feel about about beating up on Bogo. He seems like sort of a prick, so he probably deserves it. :)
A big LOL at whoever said Cimino is a terrible director.
Dan, you seen Desperate Hours and The Sicilian? They are about as close to ‘objectively bad’ as ‘serious’ films can possibly get ;-) Year Of The Dragon and Sunchaser aren’t far off either. it amazes me that anyone on Mubi rated Sicilian above a 1/5. Lambert is so goddamn awful in that film that he sinks the project by himself, without any help from Cimino.
I like Deer Hunter and Heaven’s Gate from him, that’s it.
Not Thunderbolt and Lightfoot, Joks? Damn, that film is worthy of far more praise than it gets.
Fellaheen….you hating on the New World, Tree of Life, Days of Heaven, and Thin Red Line? Come now.
Mallick may not be perfect, but to dismiss him so easily is just silly.
Ron Howard is so so, but Willow, Frost/Nixon, and Grand Theft Auto get him a free pass.
Guy Ritchie comes to mind….though I like Snatch I would have a heard time calling it great.
ARI: It’s alright yeah, not a huge fan though.
Ah, Thunderbolt is a far better film than The Deer Hunter, I would say. The Deer Hunter is a film that yields diminishing returns each time I’ve seen it (although what’s notable about that is the infamous wedding sequence was my least favorite part of the film when I first saw it as a thirteen year old and is now my favorite part of the film).
Deer Hunter’s flaws do becoming more noticeable over time. but i love the wedding sequence, and everything right up to the war scenes basically. The evocation of small town working class life is one of the best in American cinema imo.
@fellaheen: i think you’re just hatin’ on the tree of life and its aftereffects were to hate malick’s work. it’ll pass. don’t resist the lyricism of the tree of life and the thin red line and days of heaven!
Lol, I don’t think Tony Scott has been in this discussion so I’m gonna say it: True Romance, Crimson Tide and Unstoppable are his best werks. Cop II, I like. He might be the best guilty pleasure director out there right now.
There are two directors called “Masters of horror” which i think that have pretty bad filmographies: Tobe Hooper and Wes Craven.
Craven has Last House On The Left (i think that Hills Have Eyes is very hyped) and Hooper, of course, TCM. Theirs carreers are pretty mediocre but you’ll always see their names side by side with people like John Carpenter, Romero and Dario Argento.
These certainly come to mind: Point Blank and Deliverance (John Boorman)
Fight Club, David Fincher
City of God, Fernando Meirelles
Das Boot, Wolfgang Petersen
Alien & Blade Runner, Ridley Scott
Trainspotting, Danny Boyle
Snatch, Guy Ritchie
@matheus: No “Poltergeist” love for Hooper? No “Scream” and “Nightmare” love for Craven?
@armand l: hope and glory and the general were great, excalibur was good, zardoz was hilariously ridiculous, so boorman is not that “terrible”…yet.
@the dude, ok, I’ll give him Hope and Glory, and I’ll say, perhaps not terrible, but really inconsistent. Compare Deliverance, Point Blank, and Hope and Glory, with the appropriately aforementioned Zardoz, The Emerald Forest, and Exorcist II: The Heretic.
Not terrible, but wow (heh).
@matheus – craven along with carpenter is clearly one of the american masters of horror imo. also those 2 are perfect examples of filmmakers that have made a great transition across different horror genres (and even space comedy in carpenters case).
hooper on the other hand not so much – with poltergeist being very mediocre (no need to even mention the terrible sequels/ remakes in his filmography), but as tcm is one of the absolute horror masterpieces i’d say he fits the ot perfectly.
Ang Lee. He’s not a terrible filmmaker, but seriously underwhelming, considering his reputation. I believe his only masterpiece is Brokeback Mountain, though I haven’t seen Lust, Caution.
It’s difficult to find flat-out masterpieces by legitimately bad directors, but I do think there are many examples of poor directors getting lucky and actually making a decent or good film. Take Matthew Vaughn’s Layer Cake or Brett Ratner’s Red Dragon for example.
A terrible film-maker cannot make a great film.
Wake in Fright by Ted Kotcheff