No it isn’t. It’s a great film, however.
I like Ehrenstein’s answer.
As for the topic, I don’t know. I feel like a lot of its value comes from understanding the context.
David – you forgot to say:
NEXT
Wow…thats pretty rough boys…..for a topic? There are books on the subject! I believe it is the greatest film ever made! The cinematography was amazing, the script tight and perfect and the acting amazing! To not KNOW this is the greatest film of all time is insane.
Robert thanks for the NEXT…that was awsome!!! Love your tag team :)
Please see the numerous other CITIZEN KANE, GREATEST FILM EVER? threads for more debate.
I think trying to pinpoint a single film as the essence of an art form that has produced probably a few million products is a little absurd.
It’s a great film. If you feel it’s the greatest, wonderful. I don’t think one such film exists.
This is my opinion and everyone is free to share theres….if not Citizen Kane what film is better?
@Neil:
2001
Mirror
Andrei Rublev
Stalker
Ordet
Vertigo
Last Year at Marienbad
The Thin Red Line
Winter Light
Solaris
Aguirre, the Wrath of God
Apocalypse Now
The Passion of Joan of Arc
M
Belle et la Bete
…to name a few.
@ Neil Robert thanks for the NEXT…that was awsome!!!
He usually says that.
If you ask what films have the same superlative qualities of CK, the ones that make it top lists,…..
YES
Strange…my second fave of all time is Godfather 2….
@Poopbutt
You have a good list of films but which one is your personal fave?
@ Rober W Peabody III
See this is a personal choice. There is a lot of history with Orson. I think its his best…though I do like The Third Man…
Seventh Seal is another top film
“There are books on the subject! I believe it is the greatest film ever made! The cinematography was amazing, the script tight and perfect and the acting amazing! To not KNOW this is the greatest film of all time is insane.”
I didn’t mean that it wasn’t a great film. Only a fool would deny the greatness and significance of Kane in cinema history. I do agree with all you said, everything in the movie is top notch.
But here’s my question for you. What makes Kane the GREATEST? You mentioned cinematography, script, etc, but what makes this particular film the absolute zenith of filmmaking for you? Honest question, not trying to condescend or anything, promise. I actually want to know.
And yes, I have the 50th anniversary edition, which came with a book on the whole fiasco (to put it lightly) with the movie’s development. I know there are books on the subject, ahah.
There’s no such thing as THE greatest film EVER. It’s too specific and there’s quite an amount of candidates.
So in my humble opinion, a quick couple of films that comes to mind I adore more than Citizen Kane are:
Ikiru
Colors trilogy <—- All 3 films.
Gattaca
Ditto Ehrenstein.
Great film, not the greatest ever made.
Great scripting, acting, and cinematography. Communicates complex ideas in simple, accessible ways. Shaky pacing, overhyped twist that’s a little forced.
I like the idea of a man who sells his soul for greatness but gets nothing but regret in the end. Nothing was forced, Orson only had so much time and money to make the film. I think the film was a disease for the big studios, I think it embaressed Hurst, the point that a film spawned a great film and helped destroy lives. Come on what do I have to do to express my opinion? It changed things…..it changed what a film was allowed to do. You can do a semi-biography like CK on any other powerful figure. The studios at the time all headed by Jews, were going to be outed as such and have any ads in Hurst papers. I mean this film changed everything for heavens sakes. The film alone was amazing but with all the fanfare and bullshit from Hurst’s pride we have a monster film.
Influence and greatness are two separate, moderately correlated variables.
I found the presumption of motives in the Kane character a little forced.
One question I have unrelated to the quality of the film though.
How come they don’t make jigsaw puzzles like that anymore?! I want to do those jigsaw puzzles, where the pieces come in all different shapes and sizes. All the puzzle pieces today are just rectangles with notches!
How come they don’t make jigsaw puzzles like that anymore?! I want to do those jigsaw puzzles, where the pieces come in all different shapes and sizes. All the puzzle pieces today are just rectangles with notches!
They still make them. They call them art movies in some circles:)
Not even Welles’ greatest film, but a good one certainly.
On the issue of influence I think Kane’s a little overbloated in that regard too.
What did Wang Bing take from Kane to make Tie Xi Qu? Or Tsai to make The River? Costa with Colossal Youth? Ray with The Music Room? Or Vachek with Bohemia Docta or the Labyrinth of the World and the Lust-house of the Heart (a Divine Comedy) (which is still the greatest title of a film ever)?
It depends on a lot of factors. I would say all five of those films are better than Citizen Kane and two of them aren’t even my favourites from those filmmakers.
It’s too vast a medium to nail it down to one film. We can have a discussion of the range; the inherent issues with the canon, but the necessity of it; but the presumption of a single film being the greatest ever made is a destructive idea.
Thank you all for your thoughts…..I guess it was presumptious to think my opinion would be this mixture of some fair and un fair thoughts.But thats okay. I am old fashioned I guess.
I do not suppose I shall be remembered for anything. But I don’t think about my work in those terms. It is just as vulgar to work for the sake of posterity as to work for the sake of money.
Orson Welles
My answer is that this is my favorite film because it touched me in a way maybe I cant get through to anyone. I think this is the end of this forum. It was a dumb mistake to start it. I apologize for wasting anyones time.
Neil
Don’t apologize, it was a good question.
People will disagree, and people will agree. It’s life. Truffaut used to go on and on about how the films that touched us were the most important films, and…well, there you go. It’s your favorite film for a reason that we can’t know, even if you describe it to us. All a matter of us not sharing consciousness.
Cheer up! :)
love it or hate it, minimizing the impact of citizen kane is a contrarian’s errand. its impact is empirical – shimmering in waves of crisp, deep focus, non-linear, fisheye-lens, toland-hewn majesty
Sansho the Bailiff obviously…
Neil, there is no better film to use as a starting-off point on a search for greatness in cinema. You know that TS Eliot quote from “Little Gidding”? “We shall not cease from exploration. And the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time.” You will see many films, young man, and then come back to Kane and realise that, while it is indeed good, there are better (and some of ’em were even made by Welles himself).
@ Brian P
Thank you…
@Sodr2
?????
@Neil McCauley’s Cooler Brother
I get that. I love film…..I have seen thousands of films…with my eyes, my mind,my heart and my soul. Citizen Kane makes me happy to watch. There are hundreds of movies I love……lets just say…there are a few ties.
@Neil W. Wright
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sansho_the_Bailiff Watch it asap.
Everybody has opinions.
Everybody has favorite films.
Most everybody can recognize great films.
Most everybody can recognize that Citizen Kane is a great film.
But not everyone will agree Citizen Kane is the greatest film ever made.
I would cringe if everyone thought it was the greatest.
Historically it is important. Yes.
It is well made. Absolutely.
It was dumped by the studios and revived years later. Uh huh.
It was taught in most every intro to film class from 1960 till today. Yep.
Critics told us again and again it was the greatest film ever. Ugh…yes.
In my opinion, it is not.
It is the opinion among some out there that it is.
Everyone has opinions.
I will say a ‘greatest film of all time’ label is way to definitive for me. I change my mind all the time about my favorite films. I like to think we don’t need to have these rigid ‘best of all time’ lists.
According the Sight and Sound movie poll Citizen Kane is the greatest film ever made. I wonder if it will ever be beaten by another film on that list?? Now that would be history in the making.
I would love to see The Big Lebowski beat it….lol….this film is neck and neck with Citizen Kane….see I like what I like I know more people are either in love with Citzen Kane because they think its cool or they hate it (or disagree very violently) because its cool to trash Citizen Kanes top spot. I love Citizen Kane because I, I love Citizen Kane and I dont give a shit what anyone else thinks………its not cool to love something because you think your suppose to or hate something because you think your suppose to.
That is for all the nay sayers!!!!
Abide and be well…and smoke some pot you hippies!!
Duder
Neil W. Wright
Is it? Thats the question. I think it is. And love all the other films about Citizen Kane. RKO 281, Me and Orson Welles.