I understand the quality of Godard’s films, especially in terms of his influence within film history and technique, but I have never really cared for most of his films though there are some I enjoy.
And to back up Bergman, it’s not like his opinion is always off-base. He does recognize that Magnolia and Traffic are great films by young, modern directors.
But what’s so admirable about him is his marvelous contempt for the machinery of movies and even movies themselves — a kind of anarchistic, nihilistic contempt for the medium — which, when he’s at his best and most vigorous, is very exciting.”
That’s actually very good, and goes along way to summing up so much of Godard’s greatness.
Really the films and more important the subject and their treatment in all the above Directors films are very different. (run on sentence). But for me Welles,Herzog,Bergman & Godard, I love them all. 4 different lenses to look thru with an infinite number of eyes.
so basically, bergman is a hater! he doesn’t like anyone, especially those who are considered great directors.
Bergman’s not a hater. He’s just honest and passionate, just like a devoted cenephile is supposed to be. He’s praised the work of many directors, including Ford, Fellini, Kurosawa, and Tarkovsky (who was his favorite). Welles has harshly criticized other directors, including Bresson and Antonioni, and Godard was probably more blunt than Bergman ever was when he was a critic for Cashiers du Cinema.
The Welles and Bergman quotes are interesting. Bergman says that Godard made his films for the critics. This is true. He made his films for true cinephiles who celebrate the medium and who realize the medium itself is and can be an artform. Welles expresses this in his quote. Godard loves cinema itself, not so much the philosophy of storytelling or the complexities of the human experience. Bergman is concerned with different things with most of his films. It surpises me that Bergman’s quote comes after he made “Persona”.
I believe Bergman made Persona as a response to Godard’s films. It seems to me he did a pretty good job.
Some people in there doesn’t seems to realise the big differrence between Bergman, Fellini, Kurosawa, and Tarkovsky versus Godard, Welles or Hitchcock… I’m not talking about talent, they just have a very different vision of filmmaking…
I think I agree with Welles’s quote a little bit. I love Godard and think he’s a hero in the world of film, but, for the most part, the deeper intellectually Godard tries to get in his movies the more I find myself wanting to tune out. Perhaps this just shows the limits of my own intellect. I’m fine with that. For me, though, Un femme est une femme is infinitely more fascinating than, say, Weekend, yet I would imagine Weekend would be considered the more, uh, intellectually advanced movie, if you will. I would assume, at least. I don’t dislike Weekend, either. I’m not articulating my thoughts very well. There are even more limitations of my intellect! Curses!
The level of hostility present in the Bergman quote suprises me. “Persona” is absolutely great, but I don’t think that anyone could say that Bergman had the casual movie-goer in mind when he made that.
Absolutely right, Hans. Or Passion of Anna — a critic’s picture if there ever was one, and a movie that virtually defines boring — or Hour of the Wolf.
I agree with Lee/Welles. Godard has had a major influence on film, but I really don’t care for his films and especially him.
“Godard is a fucking bore.” Oh, Bergman. We’re not worthy.
I think if you make the argument that Godard is boring, you could also make the argument that philosophy and politics are also boring.
“Some people in there doesn’t seems to realise the big differrence between Bergman, Fellini, Kurosawa, and Tarkovsky versus Godard, Welles or Hitchcock… I’m not talking about talent, they just have a very different vision of filmmaking…”
…
These are all great directors. Goddard is almost the opposite of Bergman. Goddard is perhaps the most cinematic of filmmakers. In fact it was watching a lot of his films recently that made me realize that Bergman’s film are not really cinematic. They are more theatrical, script based. Bergman had always been my favorite film maker, but recently I prefer to watch Goddard, Bresson, Tarkovsky and Antonioni, all of whom I think are more cinematic than Bergman.
“I’ve never gotten anything out of his movies. They have felt constructed, faux intellectual and completely dead. Cinematographically uninteresting and infinitely boring. Godard is a fucking bore. He’s made his films for the critics. One of the movies, Masculin féminin: 15 faits précis (1966), was shot here in Sweden. It was mind-numbingly boring.”
-Ingmar Bergman
thank you!!!! i thought i was the only one who thought godard films are so overrated and soooo self conscious
Bergman was never a great critic.
Chris: I can understand disliking Godard’s films because they are so self-concious, but you can’t really criticize him for it, since that was what he was going for.
Welles’ quote is fantastic. He was one of the most intelligent filmmakers ever, even if that intellect was usually overshadowed by his outsized personality/persona.
Herzog’s statement is pretty funny. I can’t decide which I like more, Herzog films or the Herzog persona. As great as the films are, everything he says or does is so wonderfully amusing!
For the Bergman haters, (although I myself am not one) you may feel a bit of revenge via Fellini.
There’s a great anecdote where Bergman—who was in awe of Fellini’s 60’s work went out to Italy to meet him. Fellini thought Bergman was a complete, morose ghoul and tried his best to ignore him.
I’m 90% certain this episode is covered on the extras in one of the Fellini Criterions, (complete with the gut-busting cartoon Fellini drew of Bergman) but I can’t remember which. Can anyone out there help with the complete info?
PS: Bergman overstated his case, but wasn’t wrong. Based on talent and knowledge of all things cinema, Godard is one of the greatest directors of all time. But he’s incomplete as a filmmaker, for all of the reasons Welles asserted. People would do well to talk about Godard just a little less, and Raoul Coutard a great deal more.
and why would people talk about coutard more than godard? is the director subservient to the dp in creating a film? does anyone really think coutard is responsible for the godard aesthetic?
I don’t think Godard was subservient to Coutard—just deeply indebted for alot of what’s appealing about JLG’s work. Most especially in the 60’s. The Nouvelle Vauge would not have been the same without Coutard—Godard most especially.
I think that much of the criticism slung towards Godard leans towards the point that he was far more expert at style and technique than he was with actual content. Coutard was an integral part of that style. And while they had great regard for eachother, I tend to feel more respect for work Coutard has done without Jean-Luc than the other way around.
Also, Bob—I don’t mean to say that people should talk about Coutard more than they do Godard; just to talk about Coutard more than they do at present. Especially when talking about the visual merits Godard’s early work.
agreed. coutard should certainly earn the reputation as one of the greatest dp’s who ever lived.
I agree with Bergman, Welles and Herzog. Godard made some good films and i own a few of his best but he is no where near the level
of Welles or Bergman Period!
Jamon, what do you consider Godard’s best films?
Contempt, Alphaville, Weekend, Pierrot Le Fou
I hated Weekend with a passion. But I think he was great when he wasn’t trying to be all experimentally disabled.
I also cannot understand this love of Breathless, i guess if i were a Godard fan it would be different.
There’s four films right there, Jamon, and one of them a hotly contested choice (Weekend).
Godard had such love for Welles and Bergman, and really all of the classical filmmakers. He rebelled against bourgeois French cinema, but he loved Renoir, Ophuls, Mizoguchi, Murnau, all of them. He said about Welles: “All of us owe him everything.” It’s sad to me that they couldn’t show him love in return. I think maybe they felt threatened by his energy in the 60s. Especially since Welles and more to the point Bergman had been accused of being faux intellectual as well in their day. The sense of art which they fought for was picked up like a gauntlet by Godard — where else did it go in the 60s? Where else could it have gone? The fact that Godard boiled down Bergman’s symbolism into direct citation was maybe threatening and cheeky to the enigmatic Swede. I don’t know.
Welles certainly has a way with words. I appreciate Godard infinitely, but it’s mostly in an intellectual way; he’s not very entertaining. I actually have a hard time watching PIERROT LE FOU, though I think it plays with interesting ideas with such gall and irreverence that it manages to attract me. Anna helps too.
Iliveinfear
I found these quotes by Werner Herzog, Orson Welles, and Ingmar Bergman concerning Godard. Pretty interesting stuff.
“Someone like Jean-Luc Godard is for me intellectual counterfeit money when compared to a good kung fu film.”
- Werner Herzog
“… his gifts as a director are enormous. I just can’t take him very seriously as a thinker — and that’s where we seem to differ, because he does. His message is what he cares about these days, and, like most movie messages, it could be written on the head of a pin. But what’s so admirable about him is his marvelous contempt for the machinery of movies and even movies themselves — a kind of anarchistic, nihilistic contempt for the medium — which, when he’s at his best and most vigorous, is very exciting.”
- Orson Welles
“I’ve never gotten anything out of his movies. They have felt constructed, faux intellectual and completely dead. Cinematographically uninteresting and infinitely boring. Godard is a fucking bore. He’s made his films for the critics. One of the movies, Masculin féminin: 15 faits précis (1966), was shot here in Sweden. It was mind-numbingly boring.”
-Ingmar Bergman
Bergman also has some harsh words for Antonioni and Welles. I would tend to agree with the Welles quote. Although I’m a big fan of most of Godard’s 60’s films, I don’t care much for what he has done since. I also don’t like him personally, but I have to admit that he is one of the most important directors of all time.