They’re two very different films, but I’d probably prefer Ichi over Audition only because despite some interesting issues it raises about the protagonist, Audition has very little substance going for it. Sure there’s the infamous needle torture scene but if you take that out most people would probably not think as highly of it and what’s left in its place is just a rather seedy businessman who has tragically lost his wife and therefore finds it necessary to trick a woman into a relationship. Certainly not the most original of premises, but the solid direction by Miike makes it not as bad as it could’ve been.
But Ichi is only barely better IMO. The only reason I rate it a bit higher is because of the unpredictability of it (when seeing for the first time) and its undeniable camp. They’re two very different films, but Ichi is more traditional Miike while Audition sort of leans towards One Missed Call than say, Visitor Q or Gozu (two of Miike’s best films IMO).
Miike is a pretty good director, but really needs to rein himself in at times and decide to make quality films instead of mass producing films (like 15 or something in two years?!?) like he’s been doing since … well, forever.
i got this movie on vcd and haven’t watched second disc yet!
sickest intro ever,Love for Takashi Miike :3
Shock cinema at its worst.
Ichi is like a Troma film with talent. I’m not sure that’s a good thing.
“Miike is a pretty good director, but really needs to rein himself in at times and decide to make quality films instead of mass producing films (like 15 or something in two years?!?) like he’s been doing since … well, forever.”
Some of Miikes’ best films came from years where he made 6 or 7 of them. Ichi, Visitor Q, Happiness of the Katakuris, City of Lost Souls, Agitator, The Guys from Paradise, Dead or Alive, Audition, Ley Lines, Blues Harp and The Bird People of China were all made within a 4 year span. Yes, he also made some bad films in that time period. But name another director who’s ever made 11 quality films in that amount of time. Personally, I hope he never slows down.
I would agree that some of Miike’s best work came out of that vortex of over-indulgence, but if I make 15 films in a year and only one or two were decent, it’s rather a waste I’d say (I mean, what kind of claim is that; ‘oh I made 60 films but only 10 are worth seeing’). But don’t get me wrong, he certainly has talent, just extremely inconsistent (Woody Allen should take note).
I just finished reading AGITATOR, and it says that Miike beleves that a director is not truly a director unless he is currently directing. As in, WORK WORK WORK WORK WORK WORK….
That’s a weird way of putting, but I guess what he means is that unless you’re not constantly directing, you’re not a director; you’re a dude that directs sometimes. Kind of like if you were to say you are a doctor, but only work once or twice a year; you’re not REALLY a doctor.
I just finished reading AGITATOR, and it says that Miike beleves that a director is not truly a director unless he is currently directing. As in, WORK WORK WORK WORK WORK WORK….
That’s a weird way of putting, but I guess what he means is that unless you’re not constantly directing, you’re not a director; you’re a dude that directs sometimes. Kind of like if you were to say you are a doctor, but only work once or twice a year; you’re not REALLY a doctor.
in my opinion, AUDITION is the better movie. watching ICHI is like watching a live action comic book (it’s based on a comedic manga), so it doesn’t tug at the nerves and heart-strings like AUDITION does.
miike is totally inconsistent. anyone else see ISO? what a piece of arrogant trash.
Yes, Audition is without a doubt Miike’s masterpiece (I say this in full admission of not seeing a few dozen of his films…). I don’t understand Deckard’s post that Audition has no substance to it as opposed to Ichi. Audition has a lot to say about gender relations in Japan. Ichi, on the other hand, has a few cool effects – I’ll be damned if it doesn’t bring a smile to my face to see cigarettes smoke exhaled through the slashed sides of the yakuza protagonist’s mouth – but it’s all fairly pointless gore for gore’s sake.
But isn’t Audition merely a more tasteful version of Hostel 2? Granted Audition came before, but it’s practically the same premise that was already done in films like House on the Edge of the Park. Sure, it has a perfectly-fitting cultural backdrop (which is what saves the film from being a total disaster IMO) and it has restrained cinematography which gives the impression of class, but is anything new really attempted? Plenty of films have commented on the hierarchical gender structure of Japan … but that’s just my opinion, and once again I’ll reiterate that I don’t regard Audition as a terrible film (if I had to rate it, I’d probably give it four stars out of six), merely a slightly above-average one.
As far as the above quote by Miike, he’s hardly a pioneer worthy of commenting on “real directors”. I’m curious to hear his opinion of Terrance Malick for instance. But that aside, he has an enviable work ethic, I just wish he would spend more time honing his craft instead of churning out mediocre tripe. He may be a “true director” (by his definition), but that doesn’t make him a “quality director”. And it’s not entirely unreasonable for him to achieve greatness and still direct the dozens of projects he insists on doing, I mean look at Fassbinder.
Dude… you got AUDITION way wrong (IMHO). Miike has gone on record to say that he never meant AUDITION to be a horror movie at all, and I know for a fact upon reading an english translation of ODISHON that it was not the novels intention either.
Comparing it to HOSTEL’s is… ugh… I can’t even explain. I think fans have made it out to be some horror masterpiece out to just freak ppl out and that’s it, but the story and the drama and the heart come WAYYYY first in AUDITION above the gore and shock.
And when I quoted Miike before, I meant that Miike believes (or so i’ve read) that a director should be constantly working. Quality has nothing to do with it. Let’s not forget that when he was starting out, he was basically told to direct such and such film and have it done by such and such date (he worked a lot in V-cinema) which probably explains for his work ethic.
Whether he meant it to be or not, it is a horror film, albeit better than most. I didn’t mean to compare it to Hostel quality-wise, just simply “premise-wise” – and really it has more in common with House on the Edge of the Park. The point is that it’s derivative. If that means the novel is as well, then I suppose it is. I haven’t read the novel so I’m just taking the film purely on its own terms.
GAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!111111111
Hostel = torture porn
Did you really view it as a movie only worth seeing for blood and pain?
What is Audition minus the blood and pain?
eh, i hated it personally. audition was way better.
I forgot to point out that Miike is actually IN Hostel 1. hahaha
The torture scene at the end (hopefully I’m not spoiling it for the few who haven’t seen it) is the most important scene in the entire film. It’s the only thing that will convince the protagonist of his erroneous chauvinistic/traditionalist viewpoint (granted, I don’t believe the character realizes how chauvinist he is, nevertheless…). For his character ever to truly change, he must undergo something extreme and experience unspeakable horror. So actually I’d say, yes the blood and pain are central to the story.
Hostel is Audition without the racial/cultural exoticism.
What is it minus the blood and pain?
How about all of this:
http://www.filmint.nu/?q=node/40
HOSTEL is fucking EUROTRIP but with more tits and gore.
One important aspect that the above review mentions (which I agree with) is that Asami’s “revenge” against the protagonist (I keep forgetting his name…) is misguided by cause of her obvious psychotic condition and the abuse she suffered as a child. The emphasis is on the word “misguided”, which is poignant because she really does care for the protagonist (he truly doesn’t realize the implications of his actions, he is merely acting out of constant sorrow and loneliness) and yet it’s his deep-rooted traditionalism that seems to ‘trigger’ the transposing of her hatred for her childhood mentor (her stepfather if I’m not mistaken) to the protagonist.
So, kudos to the reviewer for hinting (or rather sporadically indicating) at that (I don’t think he really elaborates as much on that point I would have, but at least he mentions it). Other than that there are some valid points he’s making, but some of it seems to reading into the events quite a bit. A fine article, comprehensive to be sure, but once again: pain and suffering are the centerpiece of the film, all actions/reactions are motivated (or originated) by pain and suffering (by this I mean extreme/traumatic pain, not simply the general “pain” that one experiences through life).
And with that I’ll let some other people comment more on the topic at hand, my rambling is done.
Colin B.
I have been meaning to see this on Blu-Ray (if it ever gets released, I hope February is the final date). What are your opinions? Is it better than Audition?