Is Thelma and Louise the Last Great Film About Women?
I have nothing to contribute to this thread, since i tend to avoid ‘female empowerment’ style films like the plague, but id be interested to see how this develops.
and i can’t wait for Mr.Psaho’s contribution!! :-0
@Joks
So you’ve never seen the film? I haven’t seen it since it first came out, but I thought it was good. (The blog post makes me like it a little more, too.)
I’ve seen it, but a long time ago.
I don’t know about that. I have to say that the ending of the two of them going off the cliff annoyed me. In fact, it ruined the movie for me, and I didn’t find it a great movie anyway. What I said at the end of the movie was, “well that was dumb.” Sorry, I had to be perfectly frank here.
Someone please offer an alternative movie about friendship between women realistically portrayed (if Thelma & Louise was “real,” it sure isn’t my reality, which makes it “real” (quotation!)), a la Two Lane Blacktop. I can’t think of a single one right now.
Yeah, it’s the typical convention of America journalism in which “film” is really shorthand for “Hollywood film.” But, in any case, are they really leaving out Showgirls and G.I. Jane?
Its funny. All this time I’ve heard about these folks offended by Thelma and Louise, but I’ve never met one, male or female. Its a great ride of a movie with three dimensional characters and, yes, a female oriented point of view.
The idea that its somehow the last of its kind seems somewhat silly, especially since the author provided other examples. (Wendy and Lucy also came to mind, although that was more indie.)
Anyway, if we’re looking for thoughtful genre movies done right, Thelma and Louise is as good a place as any to start.
I, for one, enjoyed Bridesmaids.
I’ve seen it, but a long time ago.
never left a great impression on me.
Agree with Odi’s points.
The characterization of Brad Pitt’s character as Louise’s “lover” tends to ignore the fact that the character is a lowlife thief who is indirectly responsible for Thelma and Louise’s deaths.
I really don’t like the category “women’s movies” — it smacks too much of marketing lipstick.
Corny rules.
But Thelma & Louise is self-consciously a fantasy, is it not? “Women’s movies” is surely better than the groan-inducing “chick flick” but gendering audience is fairly silly any way you slice it.
^^well that’s how the biz works.
i doubt many guys rushed out to see Ghosts Of Girlfriends Past.
and if they did they are bloody traitors hahh
I agree, Ari — and an annoying fantasy at that. Also, but gendering audience is fairly silly any way you slice it . Totally.
For example, Two Lane Blacktop is considered a road movie. Yet its portrayal of male friendship, to me, anyway, was authentic.
But then, I’m not the typical female, I detest chick flicks, so what do I know…
yeah i don’t think it was a ‘great’ film. it was fun and funny. and my boyfriend enjoyed it as much as i did. i don’t remember anyone being ‘offended’ in spite of the controversy. it’s simply a female buddy/ road picture- a gender inversion of a very common type of film. real ’women’s pictures’ haven’t been seen since the ‘50s i think. they’ve totally devolved into chick flicks —gag.
@Odi
Here’s an excerpt about the ending:
Callie Khouri’s triumphant final image of the two heroines locking hands as Louise drives them over a cliff is impossible to forget. Some feminists fretted that this ending represented the ultimate punishment for the women’s defiant journey of self-discovery. Although it’s implied that they commit suicide—we do not actually see them die—this was still a choice that they made, and one that struck them, and many viewers, as preferable to life in prison or death by lethal injection. If they were only able to live on their own terms for a single lost weekend, at least they would grant themselves the dignity of dying on those terms as well. In the world of the film, what other choice did they have? As Louise says to Thelma when Thelma suggests that they turn themselves in, “Who’s gonna believe [us]? We just don’t live in that kind of world.” We still don’t.
When asked in an interview why her heroines commit suicide at the film’s end, Callie Khouri famously responded: “To me, the ending was symbolic, not literal … We did everything possible to make sure you didn’t see a literal death. That you didn’t see the car land, you didn’t see a big puff of smoke come up out of the canyon. You were left with the image of them flying. They flew away, out of this world and into the mass unconscious. Women who are completely free from all the shackles that restrain them have no place in this world. The world is not big enough to support them … I loved that ending and I loved the imagery. After all they went through, I didn’t want anybody to be able to touch them.” I share Khouri’s sentiments about the ending, which I have always loved. To me, it represented not death or punishment but hope, and even a kind of radical, ultimate fulfillment.
Someone please offer an alternative movie about friendship between women realistically portrayed (if Thelma & Louise was “real,” it sure isn’t my reality, which makes it “real” (quotation!)), a la Two Lane Blacktop. I can’t think of a single one right now.
Rodrigo Garcia’s films like, Ten Things I Know About Her or Nine Lives, come to mind. These are character driven vignettes—with good actors and good acting. The other film that came to mind: Dolores Claibourne although I don’t know how realistic that is.
I think it’s a really terrible film. Simplistic, unrealistic, with an obvious and supremely unsubtle message, and a liberal dose of wrong-headed sexual stereotyping. Hugely overrated.
“Rodrigo Garcia’s films like, Ten Things I Know About Her or Nine Lives, come to mind. These are character driven vignettes—with good actors and good acting. The other film that came to mind: Dolores Claibourne although I don’t know how realistic that is.”
Haven’t seen any of his films but, of U.S. filmmakers, Nicole Holofcener also does this pretty well, I think.
“Is this the last great film about women?”
No, I’d say Downloading Nancy and the films of Lars von Trier hold that distinction.
lol.
@Jazz — Hmmm — I’ll have to put those on my list!
Oooh I HATE the idea of women flying free of shackles. That is so ridiculous and lame. In reality most women would have stuck it out and fought to the bitter end. Risen above the crap by lifting themselves up by their own bootstraps.
“Romantic” escapist swill, that Thelma & Louise ending.
We need to get away from dumb fantasies in this genre. Come on.
No, but seriously, what exactly does “women’s movies” or “Film about Women” mean? Does this mean any film where a woman is the protagonist? The protagonist is strong (Alien, The Silence of the Lambs, etc.). Or are we talking about women’s issues?
Wendy and Lucy is great but I wouldn’t call it a film about women. I think you could make that character male and the basic premise of the film would be in tact (although there would be slight differences, obviously).
How about The Kids Are All Right?
I’m with Jazz that I haven’t seen Thelma & Louise in a really long time but I remember liking it (but not being blown away by it).
And I know I don’t need to say it but I will anyway: Rodrigo Garcia films are more anti-woman than anything von Trier has done.
what about lady vengeance? lol. anyway jazz, i think u mean things you can tell just by looking at her. haven’t seen it as i found even the title insulting.
@Odi
I hate to defend this film as I haven’t seen it in a while—and Yakult’s comments resonate with me on some level—but…here I go.
Oooh I HATE the idea of women flying free of shackles. That is so ridiculous and lame. In reality most women would have stuck it out and fought to the bitter end. Risen above the crap by lifting themselves up by their own bootstraps.
First, the screenwriter says that the ending was meant to be symbolic, not literal. In that way, I think it’s sort of appealing. Second, I don’t know if your preferred ending is very realistic. I mean, many people wouldn’t be able to drive off a cliff and they would probably just end up getting caught. I don’t see them “rising from the crap and lifting themselves up by their own bootstraps, either.” What does that mean? They would beat the rap and avoid going to jail? Or does this mean they’d tough it out in jail? That’s hard to imagine—as long as we’re calling for non-fantasy endings.
@Ari
Haven’t seen any of his films but, of U.S. filmmakers, Nicole Holofcener also does this pretty well, I think.
Agreed, although the films I’ve seen are not entirely successful.
“First, the screenwriter says that the ending was meant to be symbolic, not literal”
Does it really make a differene in this film though? The result is the same(Death).
agree with Odi it’s too romanticised.
DAMN! WE CAN’T LIVE IN A MAN’S WORLD!!! SO LET’S DEFY IT BY PLUNGING TO OUR BLOODY DEATHS!! IT WILL BE MOST TRIUMPHANT!!!
I’m sure a lot of bitter unhappily married men out there wish their wives would accept that kind of fate.
it’s certainly cheaper than divorce.
^hilarious.
@Ruby
anyway jazz, i think u mean things you can tell just by looking at her. haven’t seen it as i found even the title insulting.
Oops, you’re right, Ruby. Thanks for the correction. FWIW, I don’t think the film will insult you.
@Santino
The author referred meainly to interesting (and human) female characters. I think Wendy and Lucy qualifies. Ditto The Kids Are All Right.
And I know I don’t need to say it but I will anyway: Rodrigo Garcia films are more anti-woman than anything von Trier has done.
Wow. I’m all ears, young man.
those look like chick flicks to me. and i avoid chick flicks like the plague.
Jazzaloha
That’s what this Atlantic blogpost suggests. Several ideas for discussion popped into my head while reading this, and I’ll try to lay them out here:
1. Is this the last great film about women? I’m assuming she means Hollywood films, but suppose we expand that to include both American independent films as well as non-American ones. How credible is this claim?
2. The writer gives statstics about the way women have been losing ground in society, and she suggests that making a film like Thelma and Louise is not likely because of this. Do people agree with that? Similarly, do people agree that the film was made because women were gaining ground in the time it was made?
3. Finally, since this is the 20th anniversary of the film, I’m curious to hear what people think of it. D people consider it a good film? Here are some other quotes from the piece that I think are interesting regarding the film:
“Nobody in ‘Thelma & Louise’ worries about AIDS, using condoms or encountering a serial killer,” Smith primly noted. Surely the number of Hollywood sex scenes that depict a character of any gender reaching for a condom mid-action is low. What really bothered people is that “Thelma & Louise” understood and realistically portrayed the way women experience sex.
Between Brad Pitt’s enormously appealing performance as Davis’s lover and Michael Madsen’s touching turn as Sarandon’s flawed but loving boyfriend, it’s astonishing that anyone considered this movie anti-male…I suspect critics were actually troubled by the fact that we don’t get to know any male characters apart from their relationship with Thelma and/or Louise. As Janet Maslin explained in the New York Times in 1991, the real objection to Thelma & Louise was neither its violence nor its protagonists’ purported misandry; rather, it was "something as simple as it is powerful: the fact that the men in this story don’t really matter.
Agree? Disagree?