@Odi and other people in L.A.
Have you guys heard of the Blue Whale?
Do many “jazz lovers” hate jazz? What I mean when I ask this is do a lot of people who think of themselves as jazz fans hate ‘jazz’. I ask because it seems many but not all jazz fans tend to hate on albums like Moanin, Somethin’s Else, Monk’s Dream, Mingus Ah Um, and others for sounding too safe and conventional. And I think perhaps they simply don’t like the sound of ‘jazz’, because they sort of see it as something their parents would listen to. However, they’ll embrace an album like Out to Lunch, or Andrew Hill’s Compulsion or any of Coltrane’s Impulse recordings, because they’re modern sounding and don’t sound too much like ‘jazz’. They like jazz as long as it doesn’t sound too much like ‘jazz’. Too me it’s like classical music listeners who will listen to Stravinksy but will be turned off by Mozart, Haydn, and Schubert because they sound too much like classical music.
Do many “jazz lovers” hate jazz. I ask this, because it seems many jazz listeners like jazz albums just as long as they don’t sound too much ‘jazz’, which is why they’ll embrace Out To Lunch or any of Coltrane’s Impulse recordings while criticizing Moanin’ or even Mingus Ah Um for being too safe, when in reality they probably don’t like them because they sound too much like jazz. In any case, I’m surprised Mingus Ah Um would be criticized for being safe. Perhaps today it seems old-fashioned to certain ears alongside mid to late 60s Andrew Hill, but I can’t imagine that was the case back in 1959. I could be wrong, but…
I know Mingus Ah Um is a Columbia recording, but I doubt Mingus compromised himself to appeal to a large audience the way Monk did with Criss-Cross.
Uhhh… Explain to me how Out to Lunch and Coltrane’s Impulse recordings don’t “sound like jazz,” first.
Because those albums certainly don’t sound like arena rock.
Actually, the opposite is true. Davis was shunned when he made Bitches Brew specifically because he was making formless, avant-rock, not jazz.
@Fish
I’ve been out of jazz online communities for a while (and I don’t know many jazz fans in Hawai’i), but when I was more involved, I didn’t really know many people that fit your description. (Are you basing your impressions on online jazz communities? Let me know which ones, and I’ll go visit.) My sense is that the people you’re describing are hard-core avante-garde fans—although Out to Lunch or many of Trane’s Impulse recordings aren’t very far out. (You must be thinking of Ascension and a few other recordings.)
I know Mingus Ah Um is a Columbia recording, but I doubt Mingus compromised himself to appeal to a large audience the way Monk did with Criss-Cross.
Do the people you know think Columbia is a “commercial” label—as if recording to them is tantamount to selling out? There’s some great jazz recordings on that label. (Btw, I don’t think I’ve heard Monk’s Criss-Cross, but this is the first time I’ve heard it described as a “compromise.” Why do you say that? I really like Monk’s Columbia recordings—at least the ones with Charlie Rouse.)
Jazz:
Yes, I think that’s the issue. People tend to look at Columbia as a commercial label and perceive such recordings as being compromised for the most part. While many people love Mingus Ah Um, others seem to look down on it for that reason, because it’s not as ‘out there’ as Black Saint or Blues and Roots, although I don’t think Blues and Roots is particularly farther out than Mingus Ah Um. That’s just my opinion. That of course brings us back to the issue of whether or not a work of art is inferior simply because it’s “safer”. In any case, I don’t really understand why people make albums like Mingus Ah Um or Monk’s Dream to be compromised commercial endeavors. On one forum someone referred to Ah Um as Mingus-lite, which I thought was a bit ridiculous. They’re not even certified gold records, and neither Monk nor Mingus has ever had a gold record. It’s not like they were going to sell as widely as Elvis or The Beatles anyway.
Wu:
What I mean is many jazz listeners tend to be ambivalent towards much of jazz unless it’s avant-garde sounding. Africa/Brass certainly sounds like jazz to me, but it’s avant-garde in a way that something like Goodbye Pork Pie Hat is not. That’s all.
@Fish
People tend to look at Columbia as a commercial label and perceive such recordings as being compromised for the most part.
My response to this is the people who say this aren’t jazz fans. There’s a lot of good-to-great jazz recordings on Columbia. Kind of Blue is on Columbia, and many jazz fans and critics considered it one of the best, if not the best, jazz albums of all time. Also, consider that the jazz on Columbia is not very different from the jazz on labels like blue note, Atlantic, Prestige, Impulse!, Contemporary. If one were to say that the discount all the jazz made on these albums, there wouldn’t be much jazz left.
What I mean is many jazz listeners tend to be ambivalent towards much of jazz unless it’s avant-garde sounding.
Again, I think you’re hanging around hardcore avant-garde fans. You’d get a different impression if you hung around a different group of jazz fans, and I don’t think the majority of jazz fans are now hardcore avant-garde jazz fans.
“What I mean is many jazz listeners tend to be ambivalent towards much of jazz unless it’s avant-garde sounding. Africa/Brass certainly sounds like jazz to me, but it’s avant-garde in a way that something like Goodbye Pork Pie Hat is not. That’s all.”
Well, that’s just empirically false, then. Both statements.
So…
I don’t think I’ve heard “Africa/Brass”, but I know what Fish is saying. Something like Out to Lunch is more “out” then the Art Blakey’s Moanin’. And there are some avant-garde jazzers that can be snobby—but I don’t think they constitute the majority.
Come on, Jazz…
No one actually believes that.
Anyone that truly loves jazz loves Mingus, Dolphy (who doesn’t even fucking exist without Mingus), Wayne Shorter, Lee Morgan, Hank Mobley, Jackie McLean, Freddie Hubbard…
Preference is one thing, but the suggestion that 1) avant-garde isn’t actually jazz and 2) those that appreciate avant-garde jazz don’t appreciate other kinds of jazz is absurd on an unimaginable level.
It’s also to negate the history of jazz, which was moved forward through near constant extreme experimentation. Hell, Mingus is almost universally recognized as the father of avant-garde jazz. And I’d also like to point out that Criss-Cross isn’t seen as the beginning of a decline for Monk because he compromised his sound. It’s seen as a decline because his chord choices during this album and after became so awkward, erratic and abstract they seemed to destroy his older compositions.
And If this question was asked in 1955 we’d be talking about negating Parker, Young, Ellington and Powell for Shorter, Mingus, Davis and Monk.
@Wu
Preference is one thing, but the suggestion that 1) avant-garde isn’t actually jazz and 2) those that appreciate avant-garde jazz don’t appreciate other kinds of jazz is absurd on an unimaginable level.
I don’t ascribe to any of these beliefs, but I do think that some jazz fans don’t believe that free/avant-garde jazz isn’t jazz at all. (See Wynton Marsalis, Stanley Crouch and the arguments that swirled around them about “real” jazz.) I also wouldn’t say that appreciate avant-garde jazz don’t—as in “never”—appreciate other kinds of jazz. I like avant-garde jazz as well as other types, and I’m guessing you do, too. But I’ve known avant-garde fans who tend to be snobby—to the extent where they believe avant-garde is “superior” to other forms of jazz.
Criss-Cross isn’t seen as the beginning of a decline for Monk because he compromised his sound. It’s seen as a decline because his chord choices during this album and after became so awkward, erratic and abstract they seemed to destroy his older compositions.
I need to check this out! Is this one of the last albums he did for Columbia? I’ve listened to some of his Columbia stuff, and I really like it. I don’t have a problem with his chord choices on any of them. The only criticism I can think of is that the music didn’t really change or expand very much. What he played in the 60s isn’t very different from what he played in the 50s, imo. But this isn’t a big deal with me. I love Monk’s music and his playing.
“See Wynton Marsalis, Stanley Crouch…”
No, I think I won’t. I mean, I can’t think of two people with a more jaundiced, self-serving perspective than those two. Marsalis still direly claims jazz was “born in New Orleans,” despite that assertion being shown over and over to be, at best ‘selective’ in its interpretation of history, and at worst an utter and complete lie.
Keith Jarrett on Marsalis:
I’ve never heard anything Wynton played sound like it meant anything at all. Wynton has no voice and no presence. His music sounds like a talented high-school trumpet player to me.
“But I’ve known avant-garde fans who tend to be snobby—to the extent where they believe avant-garde is ‘superior’ to other forms of jazz.”
See, here’s my problem with that…
You use Wynton Marsalis and Stanley Crouch as examples of people who refute ‘avant Jazz’ as “real” jazz, but then claim avant-garde fans can be snobby in their belief of inherent superiority…
Am I the only one that sees that as hypocritical? Not on your part, necessarily, but just in the idea that “avant-gardists” are snobby, but classicists aren’t and can’t be?
“But this isn’t a big deal with me. I love Monk’s music and his playing.”
Yeah, for me second-tier Monk is still better than the first tier of almost every other pianist, so… It was his second record for Columbia, and I love it, by the way.
And I tend to be a classicist when I think about pianists. I love Evans, Monk, Ellington, Peterson and love Tyner on Coltrane’s records because his rhythmic focus always centered the music no matter how far out it got. And I like Shipp for almost the same reason (see his playing on High Water).
I’m also pretty iffy on Cecil Taylor.
…
What about Charlie Haden, by the way?
And Keith Jarrett.
Are any of you people fans of Robert Glasper? I feel like I should love the dude, but I’m just so bored with everything I’ve heard thus far.
For some sick Robert Glasper stuff check out the albums “Canvas,” “live at bonaroo 2007” and “live at the north sea jazz festival 2006”
For some sick Robert Glasper stuff check out the albums “Canvas,” “live at bonaroo 2007” and “live at the north sea jazz festival 2006”
I enjoyed his new album. I liked that it could’ve been very bloated with all of the many collaborations featured, but that Glasper kept the focus on the musicality, not the ego. I can’t even remember if it had a piano solo in it. But it seems the only manner in which a jazz musician can get recognition now is to release a soul/funk/r&b or jam band album, as opposed to a jazz one…
I’m not that big on the other two albums I’ve heard from Glasper.
I’m also not knowledgeable at all of more modern jazz musicians. Most of them seem interested only in feeding their ego (Wooten) or making decidedly mediocre music (Kenny Garrett, Joe Lovano).
The bright spots only seem to show moments of brilliance, too (Spalding).
I am big on Ware, Threadgill and Matthew Shipp, though. Very big. Joshua Redman, too (and James Farm, though I haven’t checked out anything by Parks, Penman or Harland), though less so.
And John Zorn, too. Though he’s about as much ‘jazz’ as Black Sabbath was…
Anyway…
Am I the only one that sees that as hypocritical? Not on your part, necessarily, but just in the idea that “avant-gardists” are snobby, but classicists aren’t and can’t be?
Not at all. I suspect I’ve given you the impression that I share the views of Marsalis and Crouch. Not at all! In another internet life, I spent a lot of time arguing against their views. My point with bringing them up is that some jazz fans don’t consider free jazz authentic forms of jazz. Let me be clear: I disagree with that. And I don’t ascribe to a narrow definition of jazz; moreover, I think it has hurt the music, both in terms of development and reaching a wider audience. (Don’t get me started on that!)
It was his second record for Columbia, and I love it, by the way.
Huh. I’m pretty sure I’ve heard his Columbia recording that came after, and I don’t really get the criticism you mentioned. I guess some people consider his Columbia recordings “second tier,” but like I’ve said, I like the playing. I really like Charlie Rouse playing with Monk. Indeed, he might be my favorite saxophonist that Monk employed (Coltrane has a version of “Trinkle, Tinkle” that is great, though.). I also like the bassist and drummer he used on those dates. (I think Ben Riley and Johnny Ore?)
And I tend to be a classicist when I think about pianists. I love Evans, Monk, Ellington, Peterson and love Tyner on Coltrane’s records because his rhythmic focus always centered the music no matter how far out it got. And I like Shipp for almost the same reason (see his playing on High Water).
I’m also pretty iffy on Cecil Taylor.
I’ve lost touch with Shipp. (Is High Water a recent recording?) What don’t you like about Taylor? Have you heard his solo stuff? I like Taylor, but in small doses. Have you heard his recordings with Ronald Shannon Jackson? (You know him, right? I’m pretty sure you’d like his music—stuff with Last Exit for sure. I believe Jackson is from Texas, too.)
What about Charlie Haden, by the way?
And Keith Jarrett.
What are you asking? Do I like them? I like Jarrett’s Facing You. I have mixed feelings about his American and European Quartets. There are moments that sound really good, and other moments that leave me cold. Jarrett’s melodic sense can be a little too syrupy for me, too. But in terms of epic melodic free improvs, I don’t think he can be beat.
I like Haden, although he doesn’t stand out for me as much as someone like Dave Holland, for example.
But it seems the only manner in which a jazz musician can get recognition now is to release a soul/funk/r&b or jam band album, as opposed to a jazz one…
I’m out of touch with the jazz scene, but my sense is that some of the recordings that are in the jazz category aren’t that interesting—at least the younger musicians. To be fair, I should say that growth and evolution of the music is much more subtle. Then again, if you like Joshua Redman’s group, you might like a lot of the stuff coming out by the young-ish group. Have you heard Stefon Harris’ (and the musicians that play with him) stuff? You might like that. (I liked Aaron Parks’ Invisible Cinema.) I loved Brian Blade Fellowship’s Perceptual, but that came out in ’99. (The music on this recording is a kind of harbinger of the type of a lot of jazz you hear now—at least by the younger, more “straight-ahead” musicians.)
The bright spots only seem to show moments of brilliance, too (Spalding).
I agree, but Spalding is young, so you gotta be patient.
I am big on Ware, Threadgill and Matthew Shipp, though.
I really liked Threadgill’s recent stuff—Zooid and Make a Move, I believe. I’ve lost touch with Ware (David S., I assume) and Shipp. Any recommendations?
@Malik
Are any of you people fans of Robert Glasper? I feel like I should love the dude, but I’m just so bored with everything I’ve heard thus far.
I wanted to like his new one, but I have mixed feelings about it (although this is based on a cursory listen). The influences don’t seem fully integrated just yet. I applaud what he’s trying to do, though, and I’m keeping my eye on him.
Do you like Esperanza Spalding? What about Jose James or Gretchen Parlato? I think I prefer all three to what I’ve heard from Glasper (at least his recent recording). Oh, have you heard Nicholas Payton’s new one? (Lots of R&B/soul). Didn’t sound too good, imo, but, again, I only heard snippets of that one.
I love love love love Esperanza Spalding. I’ve been making an effort to find more female jazz instrumentalists after going through Dorothy Ashby’s catalog.
Rappamelo is where I find about all of my new jazz artists.
I love love love love Esperanza Spalding.
Have you checked out Gretchen Parlato? What about Cassandra Wilson?
I’ve been making an effort to find more female jazz instrumentalists after going through Dorothy Ashby’s catalog.
You mean in the R&B/funk/jazz vein or just jazz in general? There was an all-female jazz group lead by Terri Lynne Carrington (sp?), I believe, and I would guess they have some R&B/funk influences thrown in. You might like Cindy Blackman (drummer; played with Lenny Kravitz), too.
For jazz in general, I really like Joanne Brackeen (pianist), but has an angular style that I’m not sure you’ll like. (If you like pianists like Andrew Hill, you should check her out.)
I’ve never heard of Rappamelo. I’ll try to check it out.
Wu:
I wasn’t expressing my own sentiments, except with respect to that one comment about Africa/Brass, but merely citing arguments I’ve often seen expressed on websites, such as Rate Your Music. That’s all. I realize they may not be representative of a widespread sentiment. Perhaps a select group of listeners makes itself ubiquitous by being outspoken. In any case, all I mean is a track like Coltrane’s Africa is much ‘farther out’ than Goodbye Pork Pie Hat, even if they’re both great. I don’t see what’s so controversial about that.
“I’ve lost touch with Shipp. (Is High Water a recent recording?)”
High Water is part of Shipp’s Blue Series Continuum. It’s actually composed by El-P, but contains everything I like about Shipp’s aesthetic and thought process towards musical progression in it. Meaning that it’s not an album about shunning new technology for just pure, masturbatory jamming (have I deftly expressed my disdain for that word, yet?), but using technology and the influx of new forms from new music to recreate, or expand upon, jazz music (which has been the more essential definition of jazz, from the beginning).
I also really like Nu Bop, Equilibrium, The Trio Plays Ware, but have yet to catch up with his more recent recordings, too… Sorry.
As for Ware…
Live in the World, Godspelized, Cryptology, Oblations and Blessings… I think those all have Ware and Shipp on them… Hmmm…
The Taylor issue is just that he doesn’t grab me as strongly as many of his contemporaries or students seem to (though I admit adulation of Shipp without recognition of Taylor is absurd)… I imagine I just need to sit down with Conquistador and spend a few good hours with it.
“What are you asking? Do I like them?”
I was more asking about their place in the discussion of ‘avant’ and ‘classic’ musicians, as they seem some of the only ones that have bridged both.
Or am I the only one that likes Jasmine?
“I don’t see what’s so controversial about that.”
Yes you do. As you’ve been pulling this stuff for something near two years now on this site.
The suggestion, not only that any avant form of music doesn’t fit within the classic pantheon (or canon) of that music, but that the fans of said avant form are pseudo-intellectuals too elitist to recognize the greatness of other kinds is offensive in its absurdity.
Plus, you picked terrible examples. Blues & Roots is almost a reinterpreting of Ah Um (p.s. speaking of avant-garde… uhh… you’ve heard Bird Calls and Fable of Faubus, right?)… Let alone the fact that Mingus is essentially the father figure for ‘Free’ Jazz and the avant-garde forms therein.
“Yes you do. As you’ve been pulling this stuff for something near two years now on this site.”
Get over yourself. It’s a public internet forum.
“not only that any avant form of music doesn’t fit within the classic pantheon (or canon) of that music”
Also, I never expressed this as my own sentiment. Read what I have to say rather than antagonizing me simply because you don’t like me and refuse to properly read anything I have to say.
@Wu
High Water is part of Shipp’s Blue Series Continuum. It’s actually composed by El-P…
Oh. I wonder if I listened to that one. I was excited about the Blue Series Continuum, but the albums I heard (I think there’s one called “Spring Heel Jack” or something like that) never grabbed me. :(
I really want to hear “new technology” in a jazz context, but I can’t say I’ve really liked the results…well, I’ve sometimes liked the results, but I wouldn’t call them jazz. (I’m thinking of music like the kind on Evan Parker’s Electro-Acoustic Ensemble—which is basically electro-acoustic improv, which I like, but I wouldn’t call it jazz.)
As for Ware…
Live in the World, Godspelized, Cryptology, Oblations and Blessings… I think those all have Ware and Shipp on them… Hmmm_
Dang, I might have own Godspelized at one time, but I’m not sure. I do have his remake of Rollins’ Freedom Jazz Suite. I like his groups, but honestly I think he music and playing is a bit disappointing. This is going to get me into trouble, but he’s sort of like the free-version of Joe Lovano. They both are solid musicians, maybe even terrific ones, but I just feel like they’re locked into an older time period.
The Taylor issue is just that he doesn’t grab me as strongly as many of his contemporaries or students seem to (though I admit adulation of Shipp without recognition of Taylor is absurd)… I imagine I just need to sit down with Conquistador and spend a few good hours with it.
I haven’t heard that recording, but Unit Structures was made around the same time, and it’s fairly abstract. Have you checked out the Taylor albums with Ronald Shannon Jackson?
I was more asking about their place in the discussion of ‘avant’ and ‘classic’ musicians, as they seem some of the only ones that have bridged both.
Both musicians are pretty open to all sorts of influences, and I guess you could say they bridge both worlds. Dolphy and Sam Rivers are two others. Andrew Hill might be right there, too, although I would call him abstract more than “out.” Don Pullen is another good inside-outside player. (Have you heard him?) I like the inside-outside musicians.
Or am I the only one that likes Jasmine?
Is that the recent duo recording? Jarrett’s descriptions of the music made me want to check it out, but I haven’t yet.
The suggestion, not only that any avant form of music doesn’t fit within the classic pantheon (or canon) of that music, but that the fans of said avant form are pseudo-intellectuals too elitist to recognize the greatness of other kinds is offensive in its absurdity.
FWIW, I don’t think Fish is saying this. My sense is that his impression is that a lot of jazz fans embrace avant-styles of jazz, while pooh-poohing more mainstream versions. I don’t share this perception, but I don’t think he’s saying that avant-garde fans can’t recognize or appreciate other jazz styles. And if he is, I disagree with that.
Let alone the fact that Mingus is essentially the father figure for ‘Free’ Jazz and the avant-garde forms therein.
Hmm, I’m not sure I would agree with that. I’d point to Taylor, Coleman, maybe Albert Ayler. My sense is that Mingus would go in a Third Stream direction at times, but not so much that I would say his music was avant-garde or free. Well, that’s my opinion anyway.
“Also, I never expressed this as my own sentiment.”
You can lie all you want, but…
“I ask this, because it seems many jazz listeners like jazz albums just as long as they don’t sound too much ‘jazz’, which is why they’ll embrace Out To Lunch or any of Coltrane’s Impulse recordings while criticizing Moanin’ or even Mingus Ah Um for being too safe, when in reality they probably don’t like them because they sound too much like jazz.”
That’s your own sentiment, right there.
…
“I really want to hear ‘new technology’ in a jazz context, but I can’t say I’ve really liked the results…”
“I like his groups, but honestly I think he music and playing is a bit disappointing. This is going to get me into trouble, but he’s sort of like the free-version of Joe Lovano. They both are solid musicians, maybe even terrific ones, but I just feel like they’re locked into an older time period.”
You may have a point, even if I disagree with the comparison to Lovano. I prefer Threadgill and I think I’ve obviously pointed out my preference of Shipp, so…
“I haven’t heard that recording, but Unit Structures was made around the same time, and it’s fairly abstract. Have you checked out the Taylor albums with Ronald Shannon Jackson?”
I remember liking Unit Structures, actually. But my copy was stolen out of my car in Denton so it’s been about a year since I’ve heard it.
I don’t think I’ve checked out the work with Jackson. I’ve been meaning to check out Last Exit forever, too. I’m a big Bill Laswell proponent.
“Both musicians are pretty open to all sorts of influences, and I guess you could say they bridge both worlds. Dolphy and Sam Rivers are two others.”
Dolphy is harder in that regard, because even on his more ‘classic’ albums and collaborations he was pretty out there (thinks of Dolphy’s solo on “Hoe Down”).
“Is that the recent duo recording? Jarrett’s descriptions of the music made me want to check it out, but I haven’t yet.”
Yeah, it’s a pretty album. I always like that, even in their avant recordings, Fort Yawuh, Mysteries, Shades, they’re able to include moments of astounding aesthetic beauty (though, technically all of those were Jarrett albums). Plus I like hearing Jarrett singing along so loudly to such quiet music.
“Hmm, I’m not sure I would agree with that. I’d point to Taylor, Coleman, maybe Albert Ayler. My sense is that Mingus would go in a Third Stream direction at times…”
I was thinking albums like Pithecanthropus Erectus, and The Clown (the former of which was based in large part on ‘free’ improvisation). Certainly when we get into Mingus presents himself and ‘at Antibes’ he’s going full out. But yeah…
@Wu
I prefer Threadgill…
At first, I thought his music didn’t really come together in an organic way, even though I really liked some of the things he tried to do (e.g., replace the bass with tubas), but I recently listened to Too Much Sugar for a Dime, and I thought it was terrific. It sounded pretty organic and integrated to me.
I remember liking Unit Structures, actually. But my copy was stolen out of my car in Denton so it’s been about a year since I’ve heard it.
Dang, Denton must be one hip town. I feel pretty safe leaving some of my cds in my car as I can’t imagine anyone wanting to steal them. (Once though, someone must have taken a case of cds that I must have dropped from my car. I’d love to see the expression of their face when they put on Merzbow. “Dang! My stereo is broken!” :)
I don’t think I’ve checked out the work with Jackson. I’ve been meaning to check out Last Exit forever, too. I’m a big Bill Laswell proponent.
Yeah, I can see you liking Last Exit. The interesting about Jackson is that he actually brings a “rock” feel to his playing with Taylor. It actually works well, imo.
Dolphy is harder in that regard, because even on his more ‘classic’ albums and collaborations he was pretty out there (thinks of Dolphy’s solo on “Hoe Down”).
I actually think Dolphy’s playing is almost a perfect mix of inside and out. Maybe I say this because his melodic ideas often really appeal to me.
Yeah, it’s a pretty album. I always like that, even in their avant recordings, Fort Yawuh, Mysteries, Shades, they’re able to include moments of astounding aesthetic beauty (though, technically all of those were Jarrett albums). Plus I like hearing Jarrett singing along so loudly to such quiet music.
Eh, I don’t care for Jarrett’s moaning, but I do agree that he’s very lyrical. I want to check out those Impulse! albums again. (Or is it a different label?) There were some stuff that I really liked and other stuff that left me cold.
I was thinking albums like Pithecanthropus Erectus, and The Clown (the former of which was based in large part on ‘free’ improvisation).
Huh. I have those and maybe I should listen to them again. They don’t sound real “out” to me. In any event, Mingus is pretty great. Btw, have you ever heard him with Red Norvo and Tal Farlow? I really liked the interplay between them; they swung pretty hard, too.
(Oh, thanks for the youtube clips. I don’t have time to check them out now, but I definitely will.)
The new album from Henry Threadgill and Zooid can be heard on NPR for a limited time. (Check it out here)
@Wu
I got to check out some of the clips. I like the Shipp trio+DJ Spooky (although I’m a little disappointed by the way they incorproated the turntables into the music. It just doesn’t seem fully integrated or interesting, imo. I didn’t watch the entire clip, though. I like Shipp’s playing, though.)
Not sure if anyone lives in Detroit, but, from what I understand, the Detroit Jazz Festival is happening next weekend (starting August 31)—and it’s free! Here’s the line-up:
Chick Corea/Gary Burton w. the Harlem Strings Pat Metheny Unity Band w. Chris Potter Wynton Marsalis Tia Fuller’s Angelic Warrior Album Release Party Charles McPherson w. Tom Harrell Steve Wilson w. Strings featuring music from “Bird w. Strings” Wayne Shorter Quartet w. Danilo Perez, John Patitucci, Brian Blade Lew Tabackin Quartet featuring Randy Brecker Jerry Gonzalez y El Comando de la Clave Joe Lovano and Dave Douglas Quintet Poncho Sanchez and Terence Blanchard Brian Lynch’s Unsung HeroesThis is a killer line-up and I’d be happy to see any of these musicians perform. (I can’t always say that…wait, I haven’t heard Tia Fuller before, but that’s the only one I’m unsure of.)
Wayne Shorter is a must-see, imo. The guy is an American treasure, and he’s not a spring chicken, so you should check him out while you can. (The group he’s playing with is really exceptional as well.) Poncho would be fun, I bet. Gonzalez, too. I’d love to check out Pat Metheny…there’s too many to mention. Take advantage of the opportunity!
Just finished listening to Don Pullen’s Evidence of Things Unseen and Gato Barbieri’s Chapter One: Latin America. That was the best Pullen album I have heard so far, but I have quite a few more to check out, and I really enjoyed the Barbieri album!
P.s. About to check out Wayne Shorter’s older brother Alan Shorter on Alan’s first LP Orgasm.
I never checked out Evidence. (Was it a solo album? Is that on Black Saint/Soul Note?)
Does the Barbieri album have a “world music” vibe? I heard one early album of his that was sort of like that. (I think it was on the Red Barron label), and I liked it at the time.
Let me know how you like Alan Shorter’s album. I don’t think I’ve heard any of his stuff.
Jazzaloha
Don’t want you to think that I have nothing to do but hang out at Jazz clubs.
There are worse things you could do; and I’d envy you. :) Thanks for sharing your experiences with live jazz. (It’s nice to hear, as I don’t get to hear live jazz very often.)
Sad news about Clark Terry. In fact, I just heard that there is a benefit to pay for his medical bills. (I never understood why the union for musicians couldn’t take care of health care needs.)