So we’re attacking Kevin Smith whilst he is attacking (or has attacked) critics. Seems ironic to me, sorry.
We’re not only attacking him for attacking critics, we’re attacking him for making bad films and being unable to take criticism in itself. We are attacking him for attacking people like me and as I imagine people other people on MUBI, for seeing film as something more than pure entertainment.
He is acting like a child and thus needs to be spanked.
All spanking celebrities ever seems to do is teach them to throw tantrums when they want attention.
Ignore him and he’ll go away. Or if he stays, it doesn’t matter, because you’re ignoring him.
—PolarisDiB
Kristian, i agree. Kevin Smith is frustrated because he can’t break out of the view askew universe with any degree of sucess. The 3 movies he made outside that universe failed. Now i didn’t mind Zack and Miri, but ‘Cop Out’ was just bad. He should reallyi quit complaining. it was just a bad movie. Critics don’t have a problem with him, so there is no vendetta shit going on. he just fucked up.
Strange how he hasn’t been railing against critics when they like his films isn’t it? He’s still an egomaniac child who still thinks rude words and crass vulgarity are funny, does his reaction really surprise you? Ignore him. His only ‘good’ film is Clerks. I’m one of the few people apparently, who thinks Chasing Amy is a fucking abomination.
after some quick research, i discovered cop out was not written by kevin smith and that could be the unaware reason critics didn’t feel it lived up 2 their expectations because i know these critics really do admire him 4 his previous work
Or it could have quite simply been that Cop Out was utter shit – Smith trying to show that he has the talent to be a director-for-hire, proving his awfulness – he ISN’T a good director, he’s an above average writer, his films would be better if directed by someone else.
Kevin Shit more like.
Could it be said that Kevin Smith’s lack of ability to take responsibility for the failure of his own movie is a….
Cop Out ?
Yuk yuk yuk.
—PolarisDiB
All very good jokes.
But I don’t want to ignore him, I feel then as if I am being passive, and I don’t want to be passive.
However I do tend to get riled up over nothing.
Activism in commercial cinema requires boycotting. You aren’t “ignoring” him, you’re boycotting! Think of it like that.
—PolarisDiB
Kristian: There really are far more important causes in the world to get activated around.
Kevin Smith is like anyone who works in the public eye: he wants to have it BOTH ways. He wants to be able to attack anyone and have him laugh at someone’s folly, but when it comes to his own failures, he gets a little prickly and expects the lot of us to laugh at his self-effacing quips, but if someone else points it out, it’s wrong.
When anyone mentions the word banning or boycott, it’s the wrong track to take. There is no way to ban someone or prevent them from expressing their opinions. You can express your own view as a counterweight, but the way Smith and his fans treat others falls into the mob mentality.
Smith is proving that he has fallen way short of the promise he showed in Chasing Amy, but then again, maybe people bought into the hype generated by the Miramax machine. Maybe he only had one or two good films in him and that’s more than most. Either way, he makes terrible-looking films and the messages are lost in dialogue that, for me doesn’t rise above sit-com level.
Banning and boycotting are not the same things. There is, exactly as you say, no way to ban someone or prevent them from expressing their own opinions. Boycotting allows people to express their own opinions—and not get ticket sales because of it despite the fact their opinions bring their movie to attention of the public. In other words, “Say what you want, your movie is still shit and I’m not going to see it.” Which is entirely fair.
—PolarisDiB
“but then again, maybe people bought into the hype generated by the Miramax machine. Maybe he only had one or two good films in him and that’s more than most”
the hype of the Miramax machine is interesting. have you ever heard Kevin Smith wax rhapsodically about the good ol’ days of the company? He always neglects to mention the fact that Miramax stopped being Miramax sometime in the mid 90’s—i.e after the success of Pulp Fiction—gave directors like Jamursch a hard time, and were basically releasing glossy studio pictures like The English Patient by 1996.
“Either way, he makes terrible-looking films and the messages are lost in dialogue that, for me doesn’t rise above sit-com level.”
oh c’mon man! it’s better than sit com dialogue! or at least it was when Clerks first appearance anyway, that’s why it made such an impact. it was different to what audiences were used to.
Anyway, apparently Smith’s next film is a horror called ‘Red State’, then he is directing a hockey comedy with Sean William Scott. If they flop his career will be over, unless he goes back to the well. back to the view askew universe.
Clerks 3 before 2015?
“……and the messages are lost in dialogue, that for me doesn’t rise above sit-com level.”
It might not be a sit-com but it’s no where near as funny as glen beck.
Wow. Really guys? Kevin Smith is the most down to earth regular guy working in cinema, and you guys attack him because he attacked critics. Look at it this way, 1: Smith spent years of his life on this film, so obviously he’s pissed that critics were so unabashedly vile towards it. 2: I personally saw numerous reviews that not only tore apart the film, but attacked Smith as a person. 3: Cop Out was his first opportunity to do something different since Jersey Girl. He wanted to test himself and to try something new, and even though its clear that in the last few years he has grown as a director, he still got attacked. 4: He said in interviews that this was in a way a tribute to his father, because while his dad did like that Smith was successful, he never really appreciated his son’s movies. Smith said that this was the kind of film that his father would’ve taken him to as a kid, so Cop Out was sort of made in memory of him.
Personally I find it perfectly reasonable that Smith would be pissed. Do I agree with how he reacted? No, but I can understand it. What I can’t understand is why a thread like this exists, because it sounds very similar, only you have no genuine reasons to be pissed. He’s angry (with a few valid reasons) and overreacting and saying that critics shouldn’t matter and that they should pay to see his films like everyone else, and on here people are angry (without any valid reasons) and overreacting and saying that he should be booted from Hollywood. I mean Jesus, it’s not like he makes big pictures or anything. Of all the name-brand filmmakers out there, Smith is one of the easiest to ignore, so why do you want to ruin his dream life so badly?
Hey I have no beef with Smith myself, but if people are going to be upset there are more productive things to do than creating Internet protest Facebook pages.
—PolarisDiB
Making bad films registers pretty low on my moral-outrage-ometer.
Word.
—DiB
But the thing is he doesn’t usually make bad movies, just very mediocre ones. There are directors and writers out there much more deserving of hate then Kevin Smith, who at least made one great movie, one important movie, and two or three amusing ones. At least he was trying to broaden his range unlike some people.
^ Josh, I really think the whole “average guy” thing with Smith is an easy exit for him to hide behind when he wants to try and deflect any kind of criticism. I’ve listened to him as a guest on podcasts and he always comes across as being a little too amused with his own opinions and free with his insults towards others. He certainly seems willing to share, so I think he should be expected to hear it from those of us who aren’t among his fandom.
Cop Out wasn’t that much of a stretch from what he normally does. Maybe the use of car chases and someone else’s script count as stepping outside the comfort zone, but really, is it a stretch to make a buddy comedy? He’s pretty much done that all along. Sorry, but the film looked bad and it wasn’t all that funny. Effort doesn’t count when making a film. We shouldn’t judge him on a sliding scale for trying hard. I wouldn’t lodge ad hominem insults on him, but he hasn’t put together a credible film in some time. It amazes me that he has the money to make others.
Just because he does this on a smaller budget doesn’t mean he should be held to lower standards. It’s not like the guy is making films in his back yard.
^ With that said, creating a protest facebook page is pretty lame.
Oh just to be clear I thought Cop Out was a terrible film. It had maybe two solid laughs and a chuckle here and there, but its not a film I ever plan on watching again. I admit that it wasn’t a huge stretch to move from sex comedies to a buddy cop film, but there were certainly scenes that were much more ambitious than anything Smith had done before. Were they well executed? Ehh, not really, but I can respect the fact that he tried.
He does seem to be branching more though, as his next film is a straight up horror. Personally I’m looking forward to it, but I’m not expecting much.
OP: “OUTRAGE!”
MP: “Boycott?”
LP: “…..Meh.”
—PolarisDiB
Do you respect Michael Bay for trying? A terrible film doesn’t deserve any respect, no matte how hard the filmmaker tried. Smith’s reaction was that of a child being told off by their parents for doing something wrong and then having a hissy fit – however understandable, it’s utterly pathetic.
I’ve seen a few of his stand up/Q&A thingies which are quite funny, but the child I see in his reaction to the critics is certainly there, he’s perfectly happy ripping the piss out of anyone for a laugh yet when it comes back at him he cries like a baby. Obviously a facebook group against him is rather silly, but he is becoming more and more a hack who’s unworthy of my respect.
dp
To a certain extent, yes I respect Michael Bay for trying. I would respect him more if he branched out into less action oriented films, but he clearly puts a lot of time and effort into his films. Now, I hate most of his films with a deep undying passion, but I have yet to see one that didn’t have something I could appreciate in it. I seem to be in the minority when it comes to online film criticism, but I always try to find the good in a film, and I have yet to see a single film that didn’t have one respectable aspect to it.
“Wow. Really guys? Kevin Smith is the most down to earth regular guy working in cinema, and you guys attack him because he attacked critics. Look at it this way, 1: Smith spent years of his life on this film, so obviously he’s pissed that critics were so unabashedly vile towards it.”
‘Filming began on June 2, 2009 in New York City and finished on August 14, 2009’
Two months of his life more like …
“2: I personally saw numerous reviews that not only tore apart the film, but attacked Smith as a person.”
That isn’t right, but Smith gives as good as he gets.
“3: Cop Out was his first opportunity to do something different since Jersey Girl. He wanted to test himself and to try something new, and even though its clear that in the last few years he has grown as a director, he still got attacked.”
He wanted to make money. If you’re justifying Jersey Girl and Cop Out by saying that he wanted to test himself, you’re reaching. He’s become a Hollywood bitch and deserves criticism for that.
“4: He said in interviews that this was in a way a tribute to his father, because while his dad did like that Smith was successful, he never really appreciated his son’s movies. Smith said that this was the kind of film that his father would’ve taken him to as a kid, so Cop Out was sort of made in memory of him.”
Michael Bay should use that one more often.
Kristian Ramsden
As most of you already know, Kevin Smith has had a tirade against critics lately because of the poor reception of his film Cop Out. I’ve disliked Kevin Smith for years now, as he makes poor movies, but had no problem with him being there. Howeer, what he is doing now is negating the medium of film as an art form and having people embrace stupidity.
This guy has a few interesting things to say about Kevin Smith, and the state of cinema industry inself:
http://www.chud.com/articles/articles/23105/1/THE-DEVIN039S-ADVOCATE-KEVIN-SMITH-MAKES-BAD-MOVIES-HATES-CRITICS/Page1.html
I think this is something, that as intelligent people who respect the art of cinema, we should fight against.
Please feel free to join my facebook page:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Kevin-Smith-should-learn-to-move-his-camera/102225793178031
I think I may leave this with the quote on his MUBI page:
“There’s something to be said for failing. It’s not the failure you feel, it’s the failure that people project when something disappoints. You’re back to ground zero, where there’s no expectations, and that’s where I like to be.”