Jazz, pardon me but you should know better than to start a thread like this. There have to be over a dozen Trier threads on this site already.
Breaking the Waves is really the only Von Trier film that sticks in my mind as amazing, and I haven’t seen that many of his films. To me, you don’t have to have a brilliant oevure to qualify as great — all it takes is one work. He may never make another film that I like as much again, but who cares? He gave us Breaking The Waves, and that’s enough for me.
I like:
The Element of Crime
Europa
Epidemic
The Kingdom
Breaking the Waves
Dogville
The Five Obstructions
@Miasma
Really? I did a quick search and also went to his mubi page. There weren’t that many threads, man. In any event, would starting another thread to discuss his films and his filmmaking be such a terrible thing?
@Odi
Right. But I think it’s interesting to discuss his oeuvre as well as his specific films. For example, doesn’t he have a distinctive style or are there certain themes or patterns that we can identify in all or most of his films? Here’s a question that comes to mind: what’s the deal with violence towards his female characters?
@Miasma — didn’t we discuss Von Trier and violence toward women on another thread? Wasn’t it about his latest movie?…
@Jazz – the women and violence topic, most recently my guess, got buried in discussion about the trailer above. God I really wish we had a good search engine on Mubi for these kinds of things within the forum discussions…
I’ve seen Dogville, Antichrist, and The Five Obstructions.
Dogville is one of the greatest movies of all time, Antichrist is pretty embarrassing, and The Five Obstructions is a really well-done experimental documentary about friendship and filmmaking.
He seems to be awfully talented and I really can’t wait to see everything else he’s produced. I’m hoping Melancholia is more Dogville than Antichrist…..
“I like:
The Element of Crime
Europa
Epidemic
The Kingdom
Breaking the Waves
Dogville
The Five Obstructions"
Substitute Dogville for one of his short films and we’re on the level here. I can’t put my finger on it but something tells me that post-Breaking the Waves, he started gaining worldwide attention thanks to all these “Dogme antics” and it’s not like I have a problem or anything but popularity through art-house is the same as Madonna gaining more fans through “alternative” music genres. Am I parallelizing Von Trier as a cinematic Madonna, whatever that means? Perhaps but not in vain. It’s eerie that Von Trier managed to acquire more cine-groupies with the assistance of an ex-miss Cruise, the vocal talents of a trip-hop dame and an Antichrist torture porn (regardless of the quality of each film), examples coming from his bombastic, partly tumultuous real-life characteristics and that’s a shame because that’s how the sell-out becomes a fashion. That’s not to say I’m pessimistic about his later career, on the contrary. I’m always hoping for the best for filmmakers when I love some of their work.
The bad thing however with “trendy” threads like this (in addition to the Tarantino praise / bash etc) is that IF I want to start a thread about an “obscure” (compared to this site’s trends I mean) and masterful (no hyperbole, for real) filmmaker like Rocha or Muratova or Terayama, not only would there be less than none participation but there would be a minor “complaint” about the intentions of an “obscure filmmaker” thread like my examples above where we would be having “fellows” like Peabody questioning the thread’s quality by auto-demeaning it with the reason of “unable to develop a thorough conversation about that obscure filmmaker’s mastery”. But then it would be a moronic quotation to begin with since individuals like that “fellow” above trust the academics and anyone who trusts academics is not a person to have a decent conversation with…
“Dogville is one of the greatest movies of all time”
Heh, that’s debatable, there are at least 100 more 2000’s films to defy that ;)
Especially when ANYTHING he made pre-Dogville knocks the socks off Kidman’s leash… (errr, was that mean?)
Did you hear his recent jokes about Nazis at Cannes?
OK Jazz. You asked for it. I had some fun with this.
Lars Von Trier: moron or douchebag?
Martin Scorsese and Lars Von Trier Teaming to Remake ‘The Five Obstructions’
Press Conference for Von Trier’s Melancholia
Trailer for Lars Von Trier’s Melancholia
Von Trier’s new sci-fi has its leading lady
von trier, tarantino, fassbinder – depiction of/ fascination with women
Denmark Introduces Harrowing New Tourism Ads Directed by Lars Von Trier
Filmmaker of the Decade: Lars Von Trier
What do you think, and where do I start?
Von Trier’s Antichrist Criterion Cover Campaign
Antichrist – should it be justified?
Von Trier – An idiot or an a-hole
the antichrist criterion dvd cover is here
Thoughts on Lars Von Trier’s Antichrist
Antichrist in the Context of Von Trier’s Previous Films
Antichrist Poster Design Contest
What makes a film misogynistic?
I’m seeing this in about an hour
Most disturbing film ever seen
which is not to be confused with Most Disturbing Film Ever
Why Dogville and not Manderlay?
This isn’t Trier but is another thread which has a recent duplication, from the long lost and occasionally-lamented CharlesDegaulle: films where voice-over narration enhances the film vs those where it takes away from the film…
Which is not to be confused with: Dogville
the most innovative directors of the decade
What are the best and worst Dogme 95 films?
Feminism, sexism and misogyny in film
Is Selma a sympathetic character?
most depressing film you have ever seen?
Breaking the Waves is not to my taste, but I can see how others might enjoy it
lol.
“Substitute Dogville for one of his short films and we’re on the level here.”
OK. Dogville is the liminal case in his filmography for me, so I could probably be talked into dropping it pretty easily.
@Miasma
Well, what your search engine is “bigger” than mine. ;) I didn’t get all those threads—then again, I didn’t look very hard, either, unlike, ahem, some people. :)
I have a love / hate relationship with von Trier. But I haven’t seen everything he has done.
I loved:
Breaking the Waves, The Idiots and Dogville.
Was underwhelmed with:
Europa [Zentropa], The Kingdom, The Element of Crime
Hated: Dancer in the Dark.
Couldn’t get through The Boss of It All
Skipped Antichrist and Manderlay – which I should see.
I couldn’t even make it all the way through “Europa”. I’ll have to give it another try some day. I’m interested to see his earlier films. I had no idea he’s made so many. “Antichrist” turned me off and judging from the descriptions of his latest it seems like he’s a director who’s going to keep blowing up the balloon until it pops in his face.
“I loved:
Breaking the Waves, The Idiots and Dogville.
Was underwhelmed with:
Europa [Zentropa], The Kingdom, The Element of Crime"
See….that’s what I was talking about…..and it’s no wonder that the 3 most talked Von Trier films on this very site are the most popular amidst art-house crowds: Breaking the Waves, Dogville and Antichrist. An aesthetic which started from BtW and has since put off the post-Dancer in the Dark viewers into appreciating his best work before the 2000’s pierced his brains out!
Really, how can someone love Dogville and be underwhelmed by The Kingdom, a mixture of marvelous satire, excellent multi-layered acting and unstoppable creepiness? Dogville had NONE of that!
I liked The Kingdom miniseries. The lead actor in that was amazing and really funny.
I like:
The Element of Crime
Europa
Dogville
Manderlay
Antichrist
^And you can quote me on that.
I need to re-watch Breaking the Waves.
Like:
Riget
Dancer In The Dark
Ambivalent:
Dogville
Hate:
Europa
Breaking The Waves
Von Trier is talented, and unique, but he can be a bit gimmicky, and his characters’ behavior often borders on the ‘Just plain silly’. And I tend to take exception to his rejection of all but moral extremes. I think Von Trier believes that any moral position that is not extreme is a sign of weakness and lack of personal conviction.
The handful of his films I’ve seen all had moments of striking beauty but lacked coherency. Also, his depictions women are ridiculous.
He’s a better visual artist than thinker or storyteller. He seems to lack uh…subtlety, not just of expression but thinking.
Also, his depictions women are ridiculous.
His woman are often the only characters who aren’t ridiculous.
Lars projects more of himself into his films than most people realize and quite often in the form of oppressed women.
Eh, to be brief:
The Element of Crime and The Idiots are the best things he’s ever done. After that, there’s his ‘scream therapy’ projects and his mediocre to ‘above-average’ ones. Interesting visual style, not brilliant by any stretch of the imagination. The Kingdom was pretty good, interesting at least.
I hate to be the only one to feel this way, but Dogville was underwhelming … to say the least, but that was discussed in another thread ad nauseum. Antichrist was OK (I’m being generous), The Boss of It All was rather laughable (not a compliment), and … meh, I’m boring myself just going through his catalog. Anyway, it’s obvious that he projects himself into the female protagonists and that he’s sadomasochistic, therefore, it’s logical that his films exhibit varying degrees of misogyny. It’s that simple really.
Nothing is simple on Mubi, Deck — how can you make such an oversimplification and claim it to be TRUE? (look at me, I’m breaking the rules, not the waves, and not people’s skulls (or other body parts not to be mentioned) and joking again)
I claimed it to be simple, not true. For me, it’s true but since there are so few universal truths, should we expunge the word from our vocabulary? Or use it when it applies to us?
I see a man greatly distressed when I watch his films. His “scream” therapy is cathartic.
Oh God, I better get off the forums now. I cannot take anything seriously at this time.
Malick, lend me a My Little Pony, will you? I need a sweet getaway.
I used to have a love hate relationship with him. The first film I saw was Antichrist which I hated, then Breaking the Waves which I loved, The Idiots which I really hated, then I saw Dogville which I loved and Dancer in the Dark which I didn’t know how to react to.
As time has passed however I’ve become fonder and fonder of him. I now regard both Breaking the Waves and Dancer in the Dark (despite its faults) as masterpieces, and continue to love Dogville. As far as Antichrist and The Idiots are concerned, I think part of the reason I reacted so negatively to them was I had no idea how to react. They poke and prod you into places you don’t want to go and so I reacted negatively. I’ve come to like Antichrist and am keen to see it again, I’m also (somewhat hesitantly) hoping to see The Idiots again to reevaluate it. It’ll definitely be an interesting experience.
As a director he is able to cause m.e to have the most overwhelming emotional experiences, and his films are genuinely challenging. I can’t think of any director who has had a greater influence on how I view films (except possibly Haneke), nor any director who has taught me quite so much about myself and how I view art
Still not terribly fond of The Five Obstructions though which sounds on paper like the most amazing concept for a film, but the execution left something to be desired.
People who loved Breaking The Waves, I’d be interesting in hearing what you see in the film. I don’t see anything at all. Nothing any of the characters do the entire film really makes any sense.
That’s a very difficult request to reply to, as my relationship with Breaking the Waves is incredibly complex and I’m not sure I could honestly give a completely satisfying answer without seeing the film again and thinking about it for a couple days. And I’m simply too busy at the moment to do that. I will do it some day though.
I will provide you with one quotation from a review written on another site though. An excellent quotation which, in part, explains what’s so great about the film. Sorry if this isn’t a completely satisfying response but it will have to do for now:
“It’s a film that can be read as a feminist scream or a moldy bit of Christian-tinged misogyny, and it’s more meaningful for it, because it forces us to consider the thing from all angles. But its condemnation of tradition is unflinching, and its portrayal of a woman conditioned by church, patriarchy, and slut-shaming to the point of self-destruction is what stands out the most, for some, who see a battle between old-fashioned men (embodied by village elders and Udo Kier’s sadistic sailor) and New Men (the rig workers associated with technology, and the literal translation of Jan’s last name). The New Men, at worst, see a Magdalene where others see a tart; at best, they can detach a woman’s worth from the skin between her legs and honor her as a person in life and death. The two groups tug over Bess, assisted by a doctor (Adrian Rawlins) who functions as an intermediate sort of male, assuring Bess her moods are normal enough, at first, then joining the call to lock her down. It’s too bad that her moral strictures and our own—so evidently reflected in Jan’s paralysis—condemn her, and it’s too hard to ignore von Trier’s ultimate celebration of a woman beatified by personal sacrifice, or punished for breaking the rules, or made insane by freedom. There is no one way to read the film, and “Breaking the Waves” doesn’t get its due if we don’t revel in its contradictions."
I love the fox
Jazzaloha
I wanted to move away from the man and his comments to the filmmaker and his films. Here’s a filmmaker that I would expect would generate more spirited discussion here at mubi. Besides Anti-Christ (which I haven’t seen), no one seems to care much about him. Is he a great filmmaker or not? What do people think of his films?
When I first started watching his films, I liked the technique and creativity, but after a while, his films left me dissatisfied—with Breaking the Waves being the major exception. To me, Von Trier has talent, but lacks substance. In a way, he reminds me of Aronofsky (although I think Von Trier is slightly better).
What do you all think?