I have this at home. Maybe this thread will motivate me to see the film soon.
Watch it tonight, Jazz!! It’s so great! Have you seen any other Imamuras? Pigs and Battleships is the best of the ones I’ve seen, IMO.
I don’t know if I can watch it tonight, but I’ll see if I can watch it over the weekend.
(I have the criterion boxset.)
I prefer Intentions of Murder. Watch that one instead, Jazz
Intentions of Murder is great, too. The two are really interesting to compare and contrast, but I prefer the frenetic pacing of Pigs a lot more! I’m excited to see what you think of them!
I really like the film, and others by Imamura in the 60s like Insect Woman and, even more, The Pornographers. Late in his career there was some softening of earthy bite maybe, even with a woman gushing fountains when orgasming/sexually aroused. In the 60s he was certainly breaking with his work with Ozu!
I like Pigs and Battleships quite a bit, but, yeah, Intentions of Murder is totally where it’s at (or if you can find a good copy of Profound Desires of the Gods; that’s a good one, too). I kind of can’t get over just how incredibly amazing and inspiring that movie is – one would want to make a film after watching it! I certainly did! :D
Savvy
It’s weird that Imamura has said his films always focus on people given his penchant even early in his career to equate people with animals… But I suppose he really meant he doesn’t shoot trains, bodies of water, or empty hallways…
I think Pigs and Battleships is a little uneven. I’m bigger on Insect Woman, A Man Vanishes, and Profound Desires of the Gods from his sixties.
Interesting thing about Imamura. He wasn’t a part of the “New Wave.” At least, technically. In fact, the “movement” was an invention of Shochiku’s and the only directors they promoted as “new wavers” were Nagisa Oshima, Kiju Yoshida and Masahiro Shinoda. Which is an odd group.
Theoretically Imamura and Yuzo Kawashima were very close. They both felt that most Japanese films never portrayed anything but tropes and never presented ‘real’ people. I’ve only seen Susaki Paradise: Red Light District from Kawashima (and his co-direction effort with Naruse), but it’s obvious that both of them really looked at how to portray women in an extremely unique manner.
Ha, the casting of Intentions of Murder: “Medium height and weight, light coloring, smooth skin. The face of a woman who loves men. Maternal, good genitals, juicy.”
I should add that those early films already mentioned are extremely beautiful as well as earthy.
In terms of his casting of women I think only Fellini liked women that were “juicier” than Imamura (and I suppose you can take ‘juicy’ to mean whatever you choose)…
I think Pigs and Battleships is a little uneven.
Yeah, it was my first Imamura, so a am partial to it though.
Has anyone here seen Endless Desire? It tried it out the other day (on Hulu Plus) and it was pretty good. A noir-ish movie that reminded me some of The Treasure of the Sierra Madre and The Naked Spur, at least in thematic concerns. Not something I’d write home about, but a pretty enjoyable slice of cynicism.
You definitely made it sound good, Nathan.
Has anyone checked out Imamura’s son’s work? Daisuke Tengan? Probably best known as a screenwriter; for the Maiku Hama trilogy, and for his collaborations with his father (The Eel, Dr. Akagi, September 11 and Warm Water Under a Bridge ) and Takashi Miike (Audition, 13 Assassins); but I saw The Most Beautiful Night in the World and it was interesting. Not many filmmakers, other than his father, could pull off a 2 1/2+ hour sex farce without it ever feeling tedious.
Not as good as his father’s work, but an interesting film nonetheless. Felt a whole lot like Profound Desires of the Gods.
@Wu – Yeah, it’s definitely worth the time. There may have been cultural/political implications in the narrative that I didn’t pick up on, but it was a lot of fun anyway.
Huh – I always thought that Endless Desire was just a sub-par film that he churned out for Nikkatsu before he was afforded creative control. I’ll check it out when I restart my Hulu plus… which will probably be soon, since I saw they added The Sun’s Burial recently… and since I never got around to watching Cruel Story of Youth or anything from the Nikkatsu Noir set when I had it last… what’s wrong with me??
OK, I finally saw this last night (after several repeated attempts). i haven’t really thought or written much about the film, but here are some thoughts…
I appreciated the satirical (almost farcical) elements of the film, but the film felt like a “one joke” movie—i.e., making fun and criticizing the way the Japanese fawn and prostitute themselves—both literally and figuratively to the Americans.
@Drunken
No other movie I’ve seen has been able to match the simultaneously comedic and intense tone that Imamura keeps up over the entire film! The frenetic gangster story is exciting and doesn’t at all detract from the black comedy, and the comedy doesn’t detract from the action!
Your comments about the intensity and action in the film surprise me a bit, and I’m curious to hear you expand on this. I didn’t really find the film intense or action-oriented—maybe because I felt the playful/farcical tone of the film overwhelmed the other elements.
2. Hiroyuki Nagato’s swaggering, childlike portrayal of Kinta and Jitsuko Yoshimura’s frenetic, graceful portrayal of Haruka are joys to watch! The leads were so well cast and have great chemistry…
I couldn’t really get into either character, although I sort of like the film’s approach Kinta (making him childlike and boyish). Maybe if we discuss the purpose of the character in relation to the overall film, that could turn me around.
The sick boss’ brother’s monologue about how the Japanese need to stop living hand-to-mouth and think more about the greater good is both honest and satirical.
There is a comedic undertone, but I’m not entirely sure about what the film was getting at, so I’d be interested in hearing thoughts about that. Do you think we’re meant to take his words seriously? A part of me feels like this is part of the film’s message—along with Haruko’s desire to escape and have a more honest life.
True, many of the characters are worsening their situation, but they don’t have much choice! It both criticizes big corporations and factories, and offers that as Haruko’s happy ending – a legitimate escape from her poverty. As she says in the film “we won’t be rich, but we’ll have something!” … or something like that.
I have a slightly different reading, I think. First, I don’t think the film suggests that the characters “don’t have a choice”—i.e., it’s not trying to portray them in a sympathetic light (not the gangsters or prostitutes). Second, did you think the film criticized big corporations and factories? How’d you get that? I also don’t think the corporations provide a happy ending for Haruko. Haruko’s “happiness” and “triumph” stems from rejecting and escaping from the prostitution and fawning towards the Americans. (Is this a specific rejection of Western values and culture? Or does it specifically repudiate the way Japan seems so dependent on America? Or something else?)
On another note, I’d like to hear some discussion about the pigs—what it represents and the meaning of the gangsters trying to go legitimate.
Dang I’m disappointed you didn’t like it as much as I did! Let me try to respond to your questions:
Your comments about the intensity and action in the film surprise me a bit, and I’m curious to hear you expand on this.
Hmmm I guess I just felt really swept up in the narrative. I really cared for Kinta and Haruko and wanted the best for them, and then the plot has so many twists and turns that made it really exciting. And then the street scene at the end, for me, had a perfect intensity about it – Kinta’s desperation mixed with his co-gangsters attempts to throw him under the bus and all the onlookers and cops. And, of course, the pig symbolism! While blunt, I thought the association of pigs with the gangsters was a really good comedic touch. The plot of the movie exhilarated me – I thought the comedy and intensity perfectly complimented each other.
Maybe if we discuss the purpose of the character in relation to the overall film, that could turn me around.
Let’s see… Kinta’s relation to the overall film… While I don’t know a ton about Japanese history, I thought that Kinta’s character was the perfect embodiment of the aspect of Japanese culture Imamura was trying to portray. He is very boyish, like a new Japan emerging from the rubble of the war. He’s really motivated and eager to make something for himself, albeit at the expense of the rest of society, but in his society, there seem to be only two ways to get ahead – join a gang, or marry an American. I thought that Kinta’s and Haruko’s characters very strongly reinforced the sociological aspect of the film.
Re: the brother’s monologue: Do you think we’re meant to take his words seriously? A part of me feels like this is part of the film’s message.
In my memory, his monologue seems more salient that farcical… I can’t exactly remember what I thought was satirical about it, so I’ll promote it as part of the multifaceted serious message that Imamura seems to be trying to portray. So yes, I do think we’re supposed to take him (mostly) seriously. He is promoting a society where the Japanese aren’t trampling all over themselves and each other, and the film demonstrates the folly of this type of living. This adds to and complicates the film’s “message.”
I’m not entirely sure about what the film was getting at.
Me neither, and that’s one of my favorite things about it. There’s an ambiguity about right and wrong in the film, which I think serves as an aspect of the confusion of immediate postwar Japan as well as life in general. Overtly, the film seems anti-American (the bulky, dumb, sex-crazed American soldiers create some of the most memorable parts of the movie), but it focuses much more on the Japanese. True, the Americans (or, at least, the American soldiers) don’t seem very concerned with the welfare of Japanese society, but, then again, neither do the Japanese! What’s worse – the intimidating soldiers who patronize brothels or Kinta and his fellow chimpira who steal money from small businessmen and continually double-cross each other? They’re both bad!
However, they are doing what they can with what they have. It’s possible to sympathize with the Americans, who are now in relative peace after a horrific and terrifying war. They’re across the world, they’ve been cooped up with a bunch of men for a long time, and their faith in God, people, and the universe has surely been shaken during the war, so carousing seems like a predictable, if not exactly justifiable, way to recover. Of course, the film isn’t exactly overt about this, but given the overall dearth of American presence throughout the film I think it’s safe to rely on historical context. It’s even easier to sympathize with the Japanese, who are in the midst of a massive restructuring of their government and their societal values. (Keep in mind that the emperor had recently been forced to admit that he wasn’t a god… how’s that for a big deal?) They are poor and need to do something to stay above water.
So, more than being a criticism of Americans or Japanese, I feel like Pigs and Battleships is a criticism of humanity. People are bad, but they can be good, too, and, like animals (say…. pigs, for example), they need to do what they can to stay alive!
Oh, and about the factories. I feel like the lightly criticizes them through the fact that Kinta’s father was fired from one as soon as he became too old to work, and now he’s forced to live in poverty as a…. whatever it is that he does. However, I feel like Haruko’s counterargument that a factory job is something… and something that offers her autonomy is very important, too. Factories, being run by people, are both good and bad!
@Drunk
_And, of course, the pig symbolism! While blunt, I thought the association of pigs with the gangsters was a really good comedic touch. _
But do you think the pigs refer only to the gangsters? I tend to think they refer to the Japanese people in general (or at least those that are fawning and running to the Americans).
He is very boyish, like a new Japan emerging from the rubble of the war. He’s really motivated and eager to make something for himself, albeit at the expense of the rest of society, but in his society, there seem to be only two ways to get ahead – join a gang, or marry an American. I thought that Kinta’s and Haruko’s characters very strongly reinforced the sociological aspect of the film.
Yeah, that makes sense. It doesn’t help me like the film more, though. :(
So, more than being a criticism of Americans or Japanese, I feel like Pigs and Battleships is a criticism of humanity. People are bad, but they can be good, too, and, like animals (say…. pigs, for example), they need to do what they can to stay alive!
Actually, my sense is the film is almost entirely critical of the Japanese. Of course the Americans do bad things (including the Japanese-American who leaves the gangster boss high and dry), but the film seems to be criticizing the Japanese for fawning dependence and prostitution of the Americans. Yes, the a lot of the Japanese people are in a tough situation, but look at Haruko and what happens to her at the end? The “messge” of the film seems to be that there are more respectable alternatives, even if those alternatives are not so easy.
But do you think the pigs refer only to the gangsters?
No – I thought they referred to everybody… humanity in general.
I guess I don’t have anything more to say other than what I’ve already said (I’m very proud of my long post above!)… I’m surprised you didn’t like it as much… and that nobody on Mubi seems to like it as much as I do. Have you watched the Tony Rayns interview? While I don’t think it will make you fully change your opinion on the film, I thought it was really enjoyable and informative, and definitely recommend it.
Give Intentions of Murder a try… it seems like most people on here like that one better.
EDIT: I’m curious, Jazz – What do you think you’ll rate it?
Drunken Father Figure of Old
I just watched it for the second time last night, and it’s just so great. Here are a few reasons:
1. No other movie I’ve seen has been able to match the simultaneously comedic and intense tone that Imamura keeps up over the entire film! The frenetic gangster story is exciting and doesn’t at all detract from the black comedy, and the comedy doesn’t detract from the action!
2. Hiroyuki Nagato’s swaggering, childlike portrayal of Kinta and Jitsuko Yoshimura’s frenetic, graceful portrayal of Haruka are joys to watch! The leads were so well cast and have great chemistry – they are perfect in every scene. Not to mention that Yoshimura is gorgeous!!
3. The message of the film is satisfyingly complex, and not as simplistic as it first seems. While his depiction of the Americans is a little unsubtle, the film is about much more than that, and is ultimately about the way the Japanese (mis)handle the incoming Americans and their situation at the time, rather than a simple admonition of America for wronging Japan and patronizing prostitutes. The sick boss’ brother’s monologue about how the Japanese need to stop living hand-to-mouth and think more about the greater good is both honest and satirical. True, many of the characters are worsening their situation, but they don’t have much choice! It both criticizes big corporations and factories, and offers that as Haruko’s happy ending – a legitimate escape from her poverty. As she says in the film “we won’t be rich, but we’ll have something!” … or something like that.
And there’s so much more! Why do you guys like it so much?