if i paid every single films i’ve seen in my life, i would be broke as hell right now
speaking about watching downloaded films, i use my HDTV as my second monitor. so i wont watch downloaded films on a laptop screen anymore
See, there you go again. There was implication about American citizens being the only people privileged to the English language. Which would be a strange thing to proclaim considering the whole British colony thing. Can you keep your projections to yourself, you’ll make yourself look like less of a fool. And I’m pro-government? Where was that stated or implied? I voted? Again, where was that stated or implied?
Learn to argue? You’ve been pulling things out of your ass this entire conversation. You would have to learn to read first before I would put in the effort to argue with you. Hell, you’d have to learn basic human courtesy before I’d have a serious argument with you. You’d also have to learn not to infer things that aren’t there based on past experiences. Or learn that not everything is ‘heaven or hell’ when it comes to ideals You just have a hell of lot things to learn before anyone should honestly take anything you have to say seriously.
Is just me, or someone else is thinkin that this topic is a shot in the dark?
What do you mean Victor?
“Of course it’s all relative Allan. Dude’s complaining about not being able to do 15 other luxuries in addition to ‘movies being too expensive’. It’s laughable bullshit that shouldn’t be taken seriously on any level. It’s an issue of budgeting not things being too expensive.”
Malik, that’s probably the best thing that’s been posted to this thread.
Dimitris, since you clearly have no ethical dilemma stealing when you feel something is unfairly priced, what other things have you stolen? or is media the only thing in the world that’s unfairly priced? (and conveniently easy to steal)
I’ve often considered Bugattis to be unfairly priced…
Dimitris and Allan support stealing media, obviously, as they are both communists who want to steal the fruit of other people’s labours and appropriate to their own whims.
I laugh at Allan’s dream of moving to Greece to be a part of a socialist revolution, as people still believe that you can have communism/socialism and the people at the top will listen to you and not steal everything you have.
America is undergoing a peaceful revolution right now, and we are having conversations about the future of the country. The other day some nut killed a Congresswoman, but it didn’t ignite some war like the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand.
The other day some nut killed a Congresswoman
This dead congresswoman is moving her arms and legs and beginning to communicate, Jason.
OH MY GOD SHE’S A ZOMBIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am so ready for the zombie apocalypse.
There is a difference between stealing Bugattis versus a digital copy of a movie or music. Anyway…
Ideally, everyone should _adequately_compensate those who produced something but, if you happen to live in a wealthy country or even middle income country, you are stealing the resources or labor of many people who are not being compensated adequately and thus are exploited. Most people who are able to sit at a computer and typing away at a website which is mostly geared towards high brow films (even if you live in a poor country) while complaining about certain other forms of stealing are highly likely to be hypocrites. (Yes, it includes me…)
Also, people who are better off than a significant percentage of people in this planet and spout off stuff like Art is Life do not realize how spoiled they are.
“Dimitris and Allan support stealing media, obviously, as they are both communists who want to steal the fruit of other people’s labours and appropriate to their own whims.”
1) Downloading is not stealing. It’s filesharing. Yes, they are different, even in legal terms.
2) I support it as well. If you’re only making films for the money, you’re doing it wrong anyway.
“if i paid every single films i’ve seen in my life, i would be broke as hell right now”
Right. If people purchased every film they viewed, the only people who would have the capability of being a cinephile or having any sort of passion for film would be the the rich who have more money than they know what to do with. As a poor college student, I don’t much appreciate being told that I can’t view anything simply because I don’t have the means—financial or geographic.
I know this wasn’t supposed to be the original discussion, but I can’t help bring it up wherever there are people that are so avidly against downloading/torrenting films. How is it any different than lending a movie to a friend or borrowing it from the library….? I’m sure you aren’t against those things.
“I know people who make 10.000 euros a month,”
legally though? and paying taxes? Doing what exactly? i’m curious.
Bart, thats amazing. I haven’t really followed it that much. I missed dear leader’s words of wisdom to the people of AZ, as well.
I really can’t believe that there are some people on this site that understands economics or the free market.
If you pay somebody a different wage in one country than another, you are instantly stealing.
And yet it is ok to steal money from those who have created wealth in their life time, and give it to college age kids who have never done anything except read a few books and whine about the man.
People who plant Flags of Truth on opposite beaches are blind to the Sea of Nuance between them.
Let’s take a dip.
“why don’t they just move to another country? This is pretty radical, but millions of people have done it. My family came from France a little over a hundred years ago in pursuit of a better life.”
This is never an easy choice. Immigration is difficult due to legal, economic and cultural hurdles. It is not like we have open borders. Countries cannot support everyone who wants to immigrate regardless of their qualifications or background.
“And yet it is ok to steal money from those who have created wealth in their life time, and give it to college age kids who have never done anything except read a few books and whine about the man.”
oh shit man, don’t ruin it.
“And yet it is ok to steal money from those who have created wealth in their life time”
I’m amused that you think everyone with wealth created it for himself/herself.
House of Leaves is full of wise sayings these days. Is that an original? I like it!
“Let’s take a dip.”
Lona, what do they do? Steal it?
If you create wealth for yourself, you have a right to pass it down to your offspring, and they have a right to inherit it. This is how you put your future generations in a better position than you were, and than other people in the future.
Don’t you want you children and grandchildren to have more choices in life, and better opportunities than a family that continually starts over at zero because they don’t know how to save money, and never work hard to make money?
Jason, her point is that when they inherit it, they haven’t “created [it] in their lifetime.”
I’m not saying inheriting it is wrong in any way. I’m saying inheriting it is not the same thing as creating it, which is what you said. They didn’t work for that, they got lucky.
And yes, some do steal it.
“I PERSONALLY WANT TO BE ABLE TO BUY BOOKS, MUSIC, FILMS, GO TO THE OPERA, DANCE PERFORMANCES, ART GALLERIES, ROCK CONCERTS, THEATRE AND CINEMA…"
You’ll get nothing and like it!
Bosses steal the fruit of Workers labour, we just want to get rid of the bosses and have the workers controlling their workplaces and the profits they produce. You do realise that the rich are getting richer while we are getting poorer, that is an indisputable fact, you do realise that all things progressive that exist in society have been fought for and won through struggle? I am admittedly a Communist (of the Trotsky anti-Stalinist variant), you’re not insulting me you are just making yourself look silly. You may disagree with my ends but the antagonism between the super rich and the poorest in society (Class Struggle) is clear for all to see, the creation of surplus value and it’s inherent economic contradiction (workers not being paid the fruits of their labour and thus not being able to afford what they produce, overproduction and it’s mass wastage) among other Contradictions within the Capitalist economic structure are the basis of this lovely crisis we are in at the moment. Marx’s analysis of the Class structure of Capitalist society is hardly disagreeable (Capitalism couldn’t operate if everyone was a boss now could it), you may think socialism doesn’t work, well fair enough think what you like but this struggle is going to persist and inherent within that struggle are revolutionary processes. I evidently do think Socialism could work, obviously your response would be “it didn’t work in Russia did it” and to Lenin himself said that without Revolution spreading to the rest of Europe then Russia is doomed. Trotsky himself predicted the eventual collapse of the Soviet Union in 1927 and more thoroughly in 1936 in his brilliant work, The Revolution Betrayed – What is the Soviet Union and Where is it Going? you should check it out. I’m not going to explain it here, cause frankly I know I’m not going to be able to convince you, but hey let’s stop this silly farse as it’s not really the place for it and just becomes a name calling match.
Also in response to Malik, if the super rich have the resources to do whatever they like, for example going to the opera then why should we not be able to do that? The third world is only in the awful poverty it is in because of these Rich scum bags who have done everything within their power to squeeze all the natural resources from these countries, with the native people gaining nothing, has smashed Labour laws away to super exploit the workers, has been funding rival war-lord factions to keep countries in a state of civil war, who when a progressive force takes place murders it’s leaders or overthrows it’s regimes, keeps these countries under the jackboot of the WTO, World Bank, IMF etc Dimitri isn’t the bad guy for wanting to go to the opera (why should he go without) the super-rich are the bad guys. I as a Communism am a member of the Socialist Party and it’s global organisation the Committee for a Workers International which has sections in some 30+ odd countries many in the so called third world which I personally fund. Charity wont solve these problems, revolutionary organisation is necessary. Again sorry for going on as I know I’m not convincing anyone, but you know – us far lefties aren’t stupid children, I’ve heard and read all the criticisms before (I thought many myself for a while) they aren’t going to convince me otherwise so, again lets stop this silly dance.
Also to all the anti-downloading lot; how do you support a dead artist?
Also no one is a bigger thief than a Banker, not only do they rob us everyday, they have stole all our taxes with this bail out and as such stolen our public services we paid for. But no, the pirate is the badguy…
“If you create wealth for yourself, you have a right to pass it down to your offspring, and they have a right to inherit it. This is how you put your future generations in a better position than you were, and than other people in the future.”
This ‘right’ is what created aristocracies. A lot of people who came for better life in the USA (or migrate to other countries in general) do so because of the difficulty of improving their lives due to the hurdles created for social mobility in their countries. It is sad that their descendants fail to see the irony of their ideologies once they gain the upper hand.
this thread’s time of death: 14:38 EST. Call it.
-America is undergoing a peaceful revolution right now-
No, it isn’t. America is undergoing a politicized pendulum swing in an apparently endless cycle of such swings . . . which isn’t the same thing at all.
‘Third World’ (bad term) countries are in bad shape for both external and internal reasons. Let’s not let the people who sell out their own citizens off the hook. I have never said, nor have I implied, that he is a bad person for wanting to go to the opera. I just find it amusing complaining about movies being too expensive when you’re purchasing/spending money on a dozen other arts and entertainment.
When have I said I was anti-Left?
Ideally the artist would have someone else get the money from his estate, either family or close friend, after his or her death. Unless you live in the US and then it goes into public domain after so-and-so odd years.