Fascinating thread, guys. As a fan of Braveheart and The Passion, I wish him luck. As a descendant of Spanish Jews, I wonder why he thought this was a good idea, after royally pissing off so many Jews, not to mention his fans and defenders in general, with his notorious drunken rant. Yeah, the project sounds damn cinematic (elephants! forced adult circumcision!) but this is a no-fly zone for someone so notoriously anti-Semitic.
But hey, Intolerance is D.W. Griffith’s best film, despite being an apologia for the racism of Birth. So I’ll give it a chance if it makes it to theaters.
“Reports of a nasty memo from Joe Eszterhas to Mel Gibson have surfaced, one filled with a summary of salacious and anti-Semitic statements that Eszterhas alleges Gibson uttered while they worked on the Maccabee script together.”
Make deals with devils, don’t be surprised when you get a bit burnt.
But which is the bigger devil, Eszterhas or Gibson?
Apparently Mel Gibson has responded:
Both of these guys are crazy. The fact that they would be collaborating in the first place is ridiculous.
seems Eszterhas has audio proof (at this point, I am assuming Gibson has a mental illness).
Mel Gibson shouted terrifying epithets at his houseguests during a rampage at his home in Costa Rica in December, according to a recording obtained by TheWrap.
Houseguest and screenwriter Joe Eszterhas provided a recording.
Eszterhas told TheWrap on Wednesday that he released the recording because “Gibson called me a liar. And I also have some reason to believe he’s creating a PR blitz questioning my truthfulness.”
Bing: Gibson doing ‘Lethal Weapon 5’?
During the rampage, Gibson shouts at Eszterhas for not having delivered a script of “The Maccabees,” their joint movie project:
“Why don’t I have a first draft of ‘The Maccabees’? What the f—- have you been doing?” he bellows.
About his ex-girlfriend Oksana Grigorieva, Gibson shouts, “I am earning money for a filthy little [expletive] who takes advantage of me!”
But mostly the recording captures an unhinged, angry Gibson storming around his Costa Rica property, knocking over a totem pole. According to Eszterhas and his family, Gibson also threw a cellphone.
The recording, about two and a half minutes long, captures only part of an angry bender described by Eszterhas in a letter published by TheWrap. It was recorded on an iPod on Dec. 7, 2011, by Eszterhas’ 15-year-old son Nick, who was with his parents, Joe and Naomi.
Also on TheWrap: Mel Gibson on Oksana Grigorieva: ’I’m Going to Have Her Killed,’ Letter Says
Other houseguests present at the time were screenwriter Randall Wallace, his girlfriend Elizabeth Topp and Gibson friend Brad Hillstrom, according to Eszterhas. House staff and their children also were present.
The release of the recording follows a public dispute between Gibson and Eszterhas. The screenwriter wrote a nine-page letter obtained by TheWrap, accusing the movie star of making continual anti-Semitic remarks, threatening violence to Grigorieva and detailing out-of-control behavior, including the rampage he described in detail.
The movie star responded in a letter that much of Eszterhas’ allegations were “utter fabrications.”
According to Eszterhas’ letter, Gibson’s rant began unexpectedly, as the guests had gathered for before-dinner drinks, and Gibson happened to look at a photo of himself holding his baby daughter Luci in which he was gray and balding:
The letter reads:
“You were staring at the photograph of you and Luci, your beautiful little girl … and you suddenly exploded. You hurled your cellphone into a wall and started to scream, ‘I look so f—-ing old! I look horrible! That f—-ing whore is destroying me! She’s taking my looks! I hate her! She’s destroying my life!’
“You jumped up, screaming full-throated: ‘Look at me!! F—-ing look at me! Look how terrible I look! Answer me, God! Why did you turn your back on me!? F—- you! F—- you!’ You stepped a few feet away and screamed into the sky, ’I’m not gonna take it up the a— anymore and say, ‘Thank you, your honor!’”
According to the letter, Gibson ran around the side of the house to a downstairs, open-air billiard room — all of which can be heard on the recording.
“The bottom line is it shows to me he badly needs help,” Eszterhas told TheWrap. “My interest isn’t to damage him with this tape but to prevent damage being done to others, starting with Jews, including Oksana and now, I’m sure, me. I strongly believe that unless he seeks and receives some kind of psychiatric help, someone is going to get hurt.”
Eszterhas added that his son Nick “was adamant I release this tape. He said, ‘I know how frightened we all were. No one has the right to treat another human being that way. This tape shows him the way he really is.’”
Ah, I was just about to post this after reading it as well! Not that there was any doubt before that he’s completely psychotic.
wow that’s genuinely terrifying
He needs help. I don’t know if he’s been diagnosed bipolar or not, but he has all the signs of it.
^ I think you’re too kind. My Ph.D. trained diagnosis would be a mix of narcissistic personality disorder and antisocial personality disorder topped with a sociopathic personality.
No insult intended, Ari, but where are your creds from? Could I see a link to, say, a paper you’ve published? I’ve got bipolar disorder (diagnosed in 2005, been on meds ever since) and my diagnosis is solely based on experience with unmedicated bipolars.
My creds come from diagnosing people on internet forums, of course
(and that axis i disorders more often relieve/exculpate people from responsibility for their actions while axis ii disorders don’t – so hence why they are found more among the incarcerated population. Since IMO there’s largely an arbitrary distinction between the two (psychiatrists will often admit that they tend to diagnose people they don’t like with personality disorders), a piece of shit like Mel Gibson should be diagnosed strictly with Axis II disorders)
Here’s the audio:
Not to split hairs but antisocial personality disorder and sociopathy both refer to the same thing and APD is incompatible with NPD (they have some similarities but you either suffer from one or the other). However, the man who coined the term “sociopath” had some, shall we say, controversial views about Jews so perhaps Mel would be proud.
Given his age I would be surprised if this wasn’t the final nail in his coffin Hollywood-wise. Sure he can still do DTV films but I’m gonna guess he will stick to co-producing the occasional film between drunken benders. I wonder if he has always been a complete lunatic and we are only finding out about it now thanks to the internet/smart phones/TMZ/the fact he is no longer a major movie star or if he had a breakdown a couple of years ago and just stopped giving a fuck.
I think his divorce led to a mental breakdown.
That being said, I think if he is done it is more because he has aged badly, the same reason Costner has troubles.
Most would forgive him if he was still a handsome movie star.
He’s always been a lunatic. It was just kept hush hush back in the day because he was a successful movie star.
I remember hearing him talk about Apocalypto… “Unfortunately, for something to begin, something else has to end.”
I didn’t think much of that at the time, but now knowing his general philosophical views, it comes off as something Hitleresque, like he’s justifying the Native American genocide on the grounds of cultural superiority.
Mel Gibson has been struck with a curse that turns him into a beast, and he can only turn human again by putting one line of comic relief in one of his movies. Unfortunately, the last flower petal just fell.
A curse be upon us and our children!
I felt that way as soon as I saw Apocalypto. The quote that opens the film, combined with the punchline that was the end…ugh…
Not incompatible, no.
Checklist of diagnostic criteria, MG hits almost all of them on both (sociopath was redundant but merited).
Even if we go by the DSM-IV or WHO definitions of NPD and APD they are incompatible. Yes, there are similarities but a narcissist is ultimately characterized by a constant need for admiration and positive reinforcement and a low tolerance for perceived criticism. A sociopath is characterized primarily by an inability to experience guilt. Their behavior may, at times, be similar but its intended consequences are completely different.
A narcissist is obsessed with what others think of him. A sociopath does not care unless it specifically interferes with his goals. You cannot be both.
“A narcissist is obsessed with what others think of him. A sociopath does not care unless it specifically interferes with his goals. You cannot be both.”
I think you’re reifying diagnoses way too much. They are used very much interchangeably by practitioners. This I know (or, if you don’t trust me, just google “more than one personality disorder”). Also, I think people can obsess about what others think without actually caring about others (it’s only about their own ego which is nurtured by admiration of others – something many antisocial people cultivate) so they aren’t mutually exclusive. I think we see that repeatedly with Mel Gibson’s behaviour. Besides NPD does not typically exhibit the aggression that Gibson also unleashes. Yet this whole episode that was taped was triggered by a photograph in which Gibson was “looking old”. If that’s not narcissism I don’t know what is.
I love how the move from The Auteurs to MUBI allows us to discuss celebrity gossip. This therefore makes MUBI the best celebrity gossip site on the internet.
I wouldn’t blame that on the now two year old name change. Celebrity gossip always had a place here (see David Ehrenstein).
I think you’re reifying diagnoses way too much.
I was using the DSM-IV (soon to be V) and WHO definitions for APD and NPD because they base their terminology on a pervasive pattern of observable behaviors. Neither establishes cause nor treatment, they merely provide psychologists with a common language so that professionals from different schools can each know what the other means when they use a specific term. Even though they do not examine root causes (which, depending on the school you abscribe do, can be etremely different) they still classify them as two non compatible personality disorders primarily for the reason I said: a narcissist constantly seeks validation and reassurance for its own sake, a sociopath could not care less unless it helps him achieve a specific goal.
They are used very much interchangeably by practitioners.
Not even close. Some psychologists use the term interchangeably. Some even view them both as being a part of the same spectrum (with the difference between narcissism and sociopathy being a matter of degree in which case all sociopaths would be narcissists but not all narcissists sociopaths). Most, however, do not use the term interchangeably and, depending on their particular school, may not even use the terms at all.
Also, I think people can obsess about what others think without actually caring about others (it’s only about their own ego which is nurtured by admiration of others – something many antisocial people cultivate) so they aren’t mutually exclusive
A narcissist operates primarily to protect the self. A sociopath’s self needs no protection.
I think we see that repeatedly with Mel Gibson’s behaviour. Besides NPD does not typically exhibit the aggression that Gibson also unleashes. Yet this whole episode that was taped was triggered by a photograph in which Gibson was “looking old”. If that’s not narcissism I don’t know what is.
I have no idea if Gibson is a narcissist, a sociopath or neither. He could just be an asshole with an epic sense of entitlement like so many other actors/models/athletes who simply no longer has the clout for people to put up with his shit.
Since when has homophobia, racism, alcoholism and wife beating become symptoms of bipoloar disorder?
He’s just a dick. An evil dick.
^ HAHA that’s more or less my point. I’m tired of this therapeutic culture where when shit likes this happens, people says that he needs help. He’s just a horrible human being. There’s no help for him.
But – a product of my own personality disorder is not giving up an argument even (or especially – when they are silly minor ones – Hellshocked, there is a clear co-morbidity between personality disorders. The literature bears this out “Anti-social personality disorder was co-morbid with Axis II narcissistic, paranoid, borderline and passive-aggressive personality disorders, reflecting serious offending behaviour and high levels of psychopathy in the sample.” (http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/1478994031000116381)
He’s just a horrible human being. There’s no help for him.
:( I feel bad for him…
I am more pissed off that people think taping a fellow citizen and releasing it to the media is okay. love how Eszterhas justifies his action by saying that his 15 year old son told him to do it!
“Anti-social personality disorder was co-morbid with Axis II narcissistic, paranoid, borderline and passive-aggressive personality disorders, reflecting serious offending behaviour and high levels of psychopathy in the sample.”
Passive-Aggressive personality disorder is not Axis-II in the DSM-IV. It was in previous versions but was moved into the “further studies” category. None of the proposals I’ve read over the years support moving it back up to Axis-II in the DSM-V either. The term psychopathy has also not existed in the DSM since its 1980 revision nor are there high or low levels of Antisocial Personality Disorder in a person (one either has it or one does not) so despite the fact the authors refers to Axis-II disorders he is clearly not using DSM-IV definitions.