@Charles:
I shouldn’t have said a few years. You’re right, it will probably be more like 20. But I’m pretty sure that TMWFTE will not see a Hi-def release again on some kind of physical media format. Blu-rays will be around for a long time but re-releases of these kinds of films are very rare.
-It is likely the last time it will be released in a disc format of any kind unless Studio Canal releases it, which I doubt very much.-
I disagree. If StudioCanal is not intending to do their own release, it makes no sense for them to pull the license to Criterion. They Criterion release is earning them revenue via the licensing fee (without StudioCanal having to worry about manufacturing, marketing, and distribution costs). If they just pull the film from the home video market and don’t release there own, they’re just loosing potential revenue.
It’s funny how the top 10 crtierion bestsellers on amazon is starting to reflect the new OOP list.
Yeah, Criterion has done a good job marketing the discs that are about to get out of print recently.
man. i wanted A Woman is A Woman to be the last Godard film i buy … sigh
Bob le Flambeur oop? What’s the world coming to?
However, some of the titles from the last go round with StudioCanal are still marked as available on Amazon.
Noooo, not The Man Who Fell to Earth.
According to this guy Lions Gate may be flirting with bankruptcy . . . if that were to happen I would imagine that would complicate future StudioCanal Collection releases somewhat.
Man. There are really quite a lot of titles which are now OOP.
This whole StudioCanal deal has me confused. Even Grand Illusion is back marked in stock and shipping at Amazon.
Miasma, that’s true, and a real bummer – the OOP list has reached unprecedented length. But the DVDs still exist and are not really scarce, with a few exceptions – so if you really want them, they won’t be that hard to find. The real loss is that some of these great films will never receive the Criterion Treatment on Bluray that they deserve.
For anyone interested… Barnes & Noble is running a sale: buy 2 dvd’s get the 3rd free — that includes all Criterion’s. Just purchased two OOP’s and got a 3rd OOP free last night.
Not too shabby :)
Matt, Ichan is an asshole who is interested in only one thing, making more money. He will do and say anything to make a buck. If there is one, may the pits of hell welcome him with open arms.
Out of 536 Criterion titles only 55 are out of print. Just over 10%. Not too bad, really. I believe Warner Bros has a much higher percentage of classic titles OOP.
the studio canal collection seen to be Aiming for us the films fans…but somehow they look to similar to criterion for my tastes…they re Europeans they should be doing this better…
the studio canal collection seen to be Aiming for us the films fans…but somehow they look to similar to criterion for my tastes…they re Europeans they should be doing this better…
The StudioCanal collection seems to be off to a relatively good start, I don’t know if they’ll ever equal Criterion in terms of special features, but they have a lot of great films in their library.
they have a nice page,and a wonderful library of titles…but havent seen any of them
criterion is in top form delivering pretty outstanding blu ray edition…they only lack subtitles….
I really like what David Blakeslee wrote about the market for OOP Criterion titles. I just purchased six OOP titles through the Barnes and Noble 50% sale and now I’m reconsidering my motives. One of my motives for acquring OOPs is so I won’t have to pay 2X-3X its retail value should I ever want the disc in the future, not to mention the hassle of hunting it down. My second motive, to be honest, is that if I can flip a disc that I don’t really care about for 2X-3x than what I paid for it, why not? But really, I don’t see a ludicris market for the 2010 Criterion OOP wave because there are too widely available—Nextflix, bootleg, secondary sellers, and collectors who have caught on to the “value” of OOP and snatch them up before they “go up” in value. There still might be a demand for the early wave of OOPs, but even for those discs I don’t see anyone (or at least myself) paying in the hundreds of dollars for them and especially if they don’t come in the original wrapping.
By the way, I was duped in buy bootleg copies of Silence of the Lambs, The Killer, Hard Boiled, and Dead Ringers for about $40 a piece. Live and learn.
So I’m wondering what your motives are for picking up Criterion OOPs, especially if they are films you don’t particularly care for? And do you think these second wave of OOPs will go up in value?
@Jay Olie Espy, I’ve had that same question pop into my head many times. I used to snap up ANY Criterion DVDs that were OOP since they are notw “collector’s items” but it did get to the point where I was buying DVD’s of stuff I would never really watch. Now, I just kind of let it go. If I want to see a film, I will purchase it, whatever the cost. And OOP DVDs aren’t too overly priced on Amazon.com and eBay (except for the Hitchcock ones!). For example, I really really wanted Straw Dogs and picked that up on eBay for $24. So personally, I would just buy what you KNOW you will watch soon. Otherwise, it can wait.
Jay, I think it’s important to clarify your motives when it comes to pursuing OOP DVDs of any sort. We’re moving further into an era where streaming and other rental technologies make ownership of the hard media less relevant if you simply want to see the film. I’ve made peace with the fact that I’m a collector and I like the portability of a disc as well as the packaging and the enjoyment of owning the whole set. I just today acquired the last few Eclipse Series sets so now I have all 21 of ’em. I bought the OOP Saura set from Criterion directly when I saw they still listed them on their website!
But I harbor no illusions that the resale value of the recent OOPs will go up dramatically at this stage of the game. Maybe years from now, but I doubt it. The key to inflation is scarcity and really, it’s only The Third Man on Bluray that came and went so fast as to justify the kind of prices that early Criterion OOPs like the John Woo films, Spinal Tap and the Hitchcock Box still command. And even they have the benefit of unparalleled extras, stuff that you can’t get on the re-releases, to prop up the value. There will soon be a new Third Man bluray on the market with what look like some nice new supplements, so I expect the Bluray price to settle back down to roughly the price of what it would have cost to buy it new to begin with, maybe even less.
Speculation on “collectible” DVDs is a time-limited game, kind of like baseball cards from the late 80s, early 90s, when everybody was expecting to reap a profit from rarities, rookie cards, etc. There’s a lot of money that was spent on stuff that’s now sitting in shoe boxes and plastic sheets in peoples’ basements!
Ryan and Dave,
Yes, good perspectives. When I buy OOPs I mostly think of it as a way to save money and time in terms of the future, and even if they don’t go up in value, I take comfort that they are still “collectible.” The good thing about Criterion discs is that they retain their value or have a higher resale value than do standard market dvds. I must say, one of the reasons I buy up these OOPs while they’re still available, and half off, is that there is no worse feeling than not snatching up a disc at X price, then later seeing it at a higher Y price. Something that I recently experienced with The Third Man. And, who knows, even if 99% of the OOPs I own don’t go up in value, all it takes is one disc to shoot up in value to make all worth it ;) But that’s all capitalist and fantasy talk. In the end, collecting Criterion discs is my hobby, not my investment portfolio. And after this thread I’ve decided not to chase OOPs that don’t interest me but rather acquire films that do and will definitely watch.
And Dave, you’re dead on with the baseball card analogy. I thought about that too!
My approach to OOP’s right now are…there are only three or four DVD’s that I’ve wanted…“Sid & Nancy”, “Nights of Cabiria” (which I regret not picking up last year), “Tokyo Olympiad” and the “Hitchcock” set. But I’m not going to fork over so much money for it. But some will, especially completest.
I will say that although released not too long ago, because they were not purchased by many people, there are certain Essential Arthouse titles that were never released by Criterion via their Collection or Eclipse line.
But in the end. It all comes down to demand.
There is only one OOP release that I want and willing to pay a good amount but not as much as collector’s want for it…hehe…..and that is Kevin Brownlow’s “Hollywood Series – A Celebration of American Silent Film”. It’s so damn expensive!
@Dave: Tell me about it… I still have many collectibles that are stuck in my closet and what I thought people would have interest in decades later, was anything but. Well, maybe my “Transformers” stuff that I did sell (since there is a big demand for that) but everything else…nada…
I have noticed that the power of the internet bringing down prices a bit lately. I picked up The Man Who Fell to Earth and The Harder They Come for great prices over the last month. The only OOPs that still seem to keep up prices are Tokyo Olympiad averaging $75 and The Third Man Blu that seems to jump from month to month from $100-$150.
As far as the Hitchcock set, you can buy the titles individually for about $20 or less each, so why would I shell out $200 or more for a cardboard sleeve with $100 or less of movies inside.
Really Joseph:
Contempt, Discreet Charm of the Bourgeoisie, The Man who fell to earth Blu, Ran, A Woman is a Woman, That Obscure Object of Desire, Diary of a Chambermaid all seem to be impossible to find new in the vicinity of the MSRP. The cheapest new copy of Contempt on amazon is $79.
I buy tons of stuff on ebay and amazon used. If you want your copy of Contempt to have shrink wrap on it, go ahead and spend $80. Last year I bought over 100 blu rays and dvds used over the internet in like new condition and one, only one, was not as described (and after one email, my money was refunded).
I just dont understand the need to have something no one else has ever touched. Anyone with a little patience can find great deals on anything you want.All fair points I suppose Joseph, but I certainly don’t buy that many movies, so whatever I do buy I’d rather have new I guess. If you plan on owning hundreds of DVDs and Blu rays, I can understand the pragmatism regarding spending habits. In a frivolous year, I may buy 20 movies overall, but I certainly wouldn’t spend $80 on a single OOP criterion. However, I’d rather spend $40 on a new oop criterion than $25 on a used one. With in print criterions, there doesn’t seem to be much of a difference in price between used and new copies, especially with blu rays, so in that case, one might as well get a new copy.
I’m beginning to suspect that studio canal gave up in their attempt to challenge criterion since they haven’t announced any new titles since September. Also, I think it would have happened by now if Army of Shadows, Marienbad, Cercle Rouge, etc. were to go out of print.
Renault and Joseph,
I can vouch from personal experience that some great deals on used OOP Criterion DVDs can be found to anyone with enough patience and diligence. I bought Spinal Tap on Criterion flipdisc for $9.99 plus s/h last year, and found pretty great deals in the $20-25 range for Sid & Nancy and How To Get Ahead in Advertising too. Fortunately I had all the OOP Studio Canal stuff already so I didn’t have to go looking for that. The only OOP Criterion DVDs I still need are Flesh for Frankenstein and Blood for Dracula, and I’m willing to hold out until I can find them at $25 or so. I haven’t had any problems with these or other used DVDs, other than a couple of occasions where the insert wasn’t included and the seller neglected to include that detail. When that occurred, I was able to negotiate partial refunds from sellers who want to keep their satisfaction ratings as close to 100% as possible. My main point being that unless you just need to watch it right away, there’s little need to jump at the high prices that some sellers are demanding, if you’re willing to do the work and find someone who’s just ready to unload for a quick sale.
And Renault, I agree with your speculation that Studio Canal dropped out of the high-end Blu-ray market. Bad timing for them, as sales for durable media are basically crashing and only Criterion’s customer loyalty is keeping them flush in the present economy.
CriterionRefs
Charles, of course it’s not “necessary” to own both DVD and Bluray versions of the same film, but so far I have not found it within myself to part ways with my DVDs even after I get the Bluray upgrade! I like the DVD packaging better (bigger) and I have a number of places I like to watch DVDs where there’s no Bluray player available (laptop computer, my workplace wellness center, etc.) I was mainly just trying to be nice to reduce your feeling of risk if you decide to go ahead with the purchase. Amazon is selling the Bluray for cheaper than the DVD right now.
OOP Criterions are clearly a bit more collectible than in-print Criterions, but the market really got out of whack a few years ago when the original release of Salo was going for several hundred dollars per disc (a market that crashed spectacularly when the re-issue came out and demonstrated definitively what a poor transfer the 1st edition was.) This spawned a bootleg/counterfeit industry where fake Salos and other early OOP Criterions flooded eBay and other secondary sellers (I have a fake Dead Ringers and Unbearable Lightness of Being myself that I bought for what I thought were bargain prices when I was naive about this sort of thing.)
The key to those high, inflated prices is that some of those titles went OOP fairly soon after release, so relatively few were made. Most of the OOPs for this year are back-catalog titles that were printed in abundance for a number of years, and they don’t have the same kind of illicit-thrill appeal that Salo or, say, the Warhol movies offer. I don’t think Bob le Flambeur will command $80 a disc like the Spinal Tap or Sid & Nancy releases still do, occasionally, though I’d rather watch Bob any day.
So far I haven’t really seen much jump in secondary prices on the first wave of OOPs from earlier this year. The cheap availability of these films through Netflix or downloads/streaming (legit or otherwise) will also inhibit the inflation, imo. People are discovering you don’t have to shell out huge bucks just to see an obscure film. And the daunting challenge of owning the complete Criterion Collection grows more intimidating by the month as the library soars past 500 titles – #600 isn’t even all that far off!