Most all Hitchcock films
“Well, let’s not leave out Mozart, so long as you’re trashing people.” – W. Allen, Manhattan
These threads always make my head want to split. I usually ignore them. But when I see Dog Day Afternoon, Raging Bull, Barry Lyndon, Unforgiven, 8 1/2, and The Conversation trashed, and then a singling out of The Godfather, Part II, which is, simply argued, a very high probability as the greatest film ever made, it pisses me off.
May I ask what are the better films that take these films’ places?
And, to show you I’m not entirely on one side of the canon debate, I have posted on this site before I don’t get the devotion to Vertigo. I don’t see it as one of the best ever. I don’t even think it’s his best, but maybe his sixth- or seventh- best.
Resisting the urge to go berserk at your choices- oh well, I guess I should be able to take what I dish out :P
And Tree of Life as well
Scottie, feel free and I will defend my choices, but all I ask is that one you give strong reasons why they are fairly rated. And I disagree with fully on the Conversation.
The Green Mile
Most all Hitchcock films
Scottie, feel free and I will defend my choices, but all I ask is that one you give strong reasons why they are fairly rated.
I can give you a dozen book-long masterworks that rate Hitchcock fairly. Have you started with those?
Uli- I already know the argument everyone makes against Vertigo, but what’s not to like about Psycho or Rear Window?
And I’m sure those masterworks were written with reverence in mind.
Films like 2001, Citizen Kane, the Godfather, Pulp Fiction, etc have this built in safety that if one does not like them, they must be an imbecile and cannot understand films, which is patently untrue.
Citizen Kane, while beautifully photographed, great editing and impeccable story structure is hindered by the melodramatic acting. The acting was certainly a product of its time, but one could see how some may find it overrated. I do not agree that it is overrated.
2001 is a fine piece of art with some stunning visuals, but is one of the coldest, soulless films ever produced.
The Godfather is the only film I think is perfect.
Pulp Fiction is not the masterwork people scream that it is, while Sam Jackson is brilliant, and Keitel is fun, but that’s it. tarantino depends too much on verbal pyrotechnics and the story structure that people felt was amazing came about in the edit bay when it was realized the film was a failure, and hence moved the strongest piece to the end to try and go out on a big note.
I find Hitchcock films uninteresting and at times tedious. I understand that I am in the minority here, and that happens to everyone at some point.
…..and THOSE are criticisms !!!!
i getting ready to leave, did have a great deal of mind, and peabody you know I don’t give a shit about what you think, just as I’m sire you don’t give a shit about what I think.
And that’s where your powers of argument end. Quit pretending you’re willing and able to take on Hitchcock scholarship.
Anyone who loves film and is looking for the examples of some of the greatest ever made can turn to our many “overrated” threads and 90% of those listed will be treasures.
Since no one appears to want to make any substantive criticisms, the consensus of the vast majority of film critics, scholars and fans is not really being challenged here.
Are you all willing to say that people who go into writing a paper or a book on a film or director they already love are going to be objective? There no such thing. They are going to be reverential to the subject, glowing, like Ahmad Rashad talking about Jordan or a conservative talking about Reagan.
And Jerry as I pointed out already, I was on my way out the door when I typed that small bit up.
But let’s be honest, truly honest, and admit that because a film liked Casablanca is on a billion top ten lists that it must truly be one of the top ten best ever, when, in fact, some supposed scholars feel they must exclude certain titles on their list or be ostracized from their colleagues.
How many variations do we see in the lists of supposed scholars?
We even see it here, the herd mentality.
And peabody, jerry, Scott, Brad, I ain’t saying you are wrong, you’re not, and neither am I, we just disagree.
Just because someone grazes in a different field doesn’t mean they are wrong, it just means they prefer a different view while they eat.
I often think of whether people actually mean overrated or misrated when speaking so of any film.
Anyways, I was underwhelmed by some films that are either considered classics or critics’ picks, or both. Such are, as I recall now, Maltese Falcon, Sherlock, Jr., North by Northwest, Vertigo, Apocalypse Now, Black Swan, That Obscure Object of Desire, Red Desert, Eraserhead, Hugo, An Education, No Country for Old Men, Crash’05, Saving Private Ryan, The Curious Case of Benjamin Button, Gangs of New York, Black Hawk Dawn, etc.
I certainly believe that the initial attention that one pays to the hype and praise of a particular film may affect his afterward feelings about the picture. There were films that did indeed initially leave me cold. However, I believe they were later worth to be recognized as great works as I would radically change my mind over consequent repeating viewings. Those that have not changed in my eyes so far were just mentioned earlier.
The new Batman Franchise. In fact, everything by Christopher Nolan, the new flavor of the month in Tinseltown and with the teens and 20-somethings. These films are just as bad as Tim Burton’s, and look at the hype he got in the late 80s and early 90s.
As for Inception and Memento, ARRRRGH! As Mike Meyers from All Things Scottish said, “It’s CRAAAAAAP!”
On my original post I forgot to mention The Silence of the Lambs which I really do not think is that special, plus I am not wholly a fan of The Shawshank Redemption
Nolan as bad as Tim Burton? Too far sir, too far!
Casablanca is a great film, I’m sorry, I usually sympathize with peoples opinions but that is too far!
In regards to another person’s mentioning of Brokeback Mountain, I don’t believe it is an overrated film, but one with a very poorly thought out ending that sends a bad message.
Anyway, I thought of another one. My previous mention was Gladiator, which truly was one of the Academy’s biggest mistakes. But one that comes in for a close second is Crash.
Two things if you don’t mind:
1) what was the bad message of Brokeback Mountain?
2) I love Crash, dug Gladiator (not Oscar worthy, though), and must say that the Academy’s worst decision of all time is The Iron Lady (IMO, but come ON).
I think we should take S&S top50 list of critics as a canon instead of those stupid academy awards. Only ‘weekend’ audience rate high those films.
Yeah, gotta say, Casablanca is legit.
Now, The Shawshank Redemption….
…is an overrated film
Lost in Translation, full of hipster crap only saved by Bill murray and the soundtrack.
Every Tarantino film after Jackie Brown
How about how people love to throw the term “hipster” around to dismiss anything they don’t like?
Sofia Coppola is not perfect, in fact I did not like Somewhere much at all…. but Lost in Translation is the great modern romance film, and Jackie Brown is Tarantino’s weakest film easily, by his own admission.
“I would have died for Reservoir Dogs and I would have died getting a shot for Pulp Fiction. I don’t know if I would have died for Jackie Brown and that scared me a little. I think the reason was that it was based on a novel, it wasn’t an original thing born from me.”
This shows, where as I think Death Proof is right up there with his best early work.
Great Romance?? no hipster rubbish about a spoilt rich girl who doesn’t get what she wants, Bill Murray is excellent but isterribly terribly overated. I think Coppola needs a screenwriter badly to work with her, she’s got a good eye but her writting is awful, Thats why i think Jackie Brown is his greatest work, he doesn’t run away with it, and its not all his wink to the audiences saying “ain’t this cool” its his most heartfelt work and oringinal too. But we both won’t agree on that. Death Proof is a load of old rubbish.
Let me define “hipster” for everyone
Hipster- Somebody that likes something that I don’t like.
Overrated?… Citizen Kane. It is one of those film I would watch maybe even four or five times just to take note of its impressive technical merits and for the importance of it, but beyond that, I feel there’s nothing more; for me it’s like an excuse for showing all those technical improvements. Like an experiment (possibly the greatest experiment in cinema history), but not a great film. Welles’ next works, which are so overlooked thanks to Kane, are in fact great films: The Lady from Shangai, Touch of Evil, The Trial, Falstaff, even F for Fake, that are technically impressive too, manage to capture emotions and don’t feel empty like Kane… You can also count The Magnificent Ambersons as great if you don’t fell asleep half of it. I usually don’t say this but !God that’s a mindnumbingly boring film!
Excuse my english.