Moderated
Yes, Sasha is not a standard pornstar. She gets off on vomit and drinks colonic bags. Being a porn star is one thing, doing some of what Sasha Grey does is a completely different thing.
although she’s young, and may be naive, is it fair to critisize her for saying she’s a reader of Existentialism and a fan of guys like Godard? many member of this forum are under the age of 20, and many may be as naive as their age, but i’ve also met idiot people in their 30s who can’t spell half as good as their own children. and yes, she’s a porn star—wouldn’t want anyone in my family doing it, but fuck it—ce la vie, and all that shit. judging someone based on being a porn star isn’t the same as it was in the 70s and 80s, or even in the 90s. anyone ever see an interview with Joanna Angel? she’s a porn star, but you wouldn’t know it when you here or talk. and you wouldn’t expect her to be an intelligent women while you’re watching her take a 10 inch cock up her ass while she’s gagging on another guys cock and being spit on by another woman. but, well, she’s extremely smart and a college graduate, so maybe we shouldn’t waste time talking shit about people we don’t know. hell, i manage a shitty little mexican resturant and i know more than most of the college professors on Jeopardy. who knew?
Except how to spell, which is, ironically, one of your pet peeves.
your mom’s a pet peeve
Hmm, you seem to know your porn Marq. And also, it was mentioned by Perfumed Dandy, what is wrong with Two Girls an a cup? I’ve only heard about it from Family Guy in a manatee joke.
I miss Jeff Stryker, my favorite porn star from back in the day. I really could have cared less what his taste in films was like, or even if he could read above a fourth grade level.
I really don’t give a shit what this girl does, and I’m really annoyed that some people here would feel such a need to judge her. Sometimes people lead fucked-up lives, and have many many problems because of that. I don’t want to let people in on things that have gone on in my life, but I will say I understand that it’s not an uncommon experience to feel damaged or messed-up and I can see why someone would turn to doing porn or very have different, messed-up kinds of sexuality. The fact that she’s even trying to be a refined, cultured person (forget about if she’s genuine or not…though I believe that she is), makes me respect her a hell of a lot more than many women who are happy with maintaining their culturally-approved status as passive caretakers and sitting at home watching soaps all day or constantly talking about fashion.
I’m sorry to have to bring this word out, but I think criticizing a female porn star for liking Jung or existentialism is a bit misogynistic. I think guys often assume that girls in these kind of positions have to be lying about enjoying something deeper because they don’t think it’s possible for girls in that position to think that way. And I know that she’s obviously trying to bring attention to herself, but I think some part of this girl realizes the perception of her as a stupid slut and is trying to do something about it by appearing as at least a bit more of a complex individual. Unfortunately fredo is probably right about her 15 minutes of fame, and she’ll probably get chewed up and spit out like every other young and naive pretty and unstable girl in the universe and then no one will care. But anyway, at least this girl is trying to be her own person, even if she might be going about it in a wrong way.
Liz, I completely agree.
I don’t think I’d agree that the forum is trending towards misogyny. Seems that most posters on this thread defended Ms. Grey and the thread about Asia Argento was met with a backlash. Considering the internet as a whole is awash with Misogyny and racism, I think it’s refreshing that I haven’t seen much of either on this site. If I did, I’d stop coming here as well.
Liz, for the record I think her liking great films and being intelligent is great. It is a bit sad if she is so intelligent the career choice she has made. But no matter what there life is I say the more people who like Godard the better!
Don’t leave 1852.
1852 – I agree, but I also think it’s understandable. I can understand why it’s hard to see someone like a porn star as being genuine, or you feel such an intense aversion to porn that you lose respect for someone for doing it. There are good reasons to feel that way (at least the latter anyway). But I do think there’s often a culturally-implanted misogyny underneath those perceptions, and it’s something that people have to be conscious of and try to break free of.
I’m also in a bit of an angry bitchy mode today, lol.
None of this tells us as much about Sasha Grey as it does about Sartre and Godard: that listing them as your intellectual idols is not sufficient to make your life admirable.
How many stunted wretches and sociopaths have tried to use Nietzsche or Ayn Rand to elevate their own mediocrity?
Liz – Enjoying fashion, soaps, or raising children has little to do with submission. A woman should be able to choose the lifestyle she wants without being subjected to ideas of what a liberated woman is. Also, there is no reason why a woman can’t take part in those activities and still be considered an intellectual. Just like Sasha Grey shouldn’t be categorize and stereotyped.
HHH – I agree, I think I was a little bit too angry to clearly state my feelings on the matter (and I’m also a bit biased, because I’m the type of person who’s never gonna lead a “normal” life). Obviously there’s nothing wrong with enjoying soaps or fashion (and there’s even less wrong with raising kids!). Even I like that kind of stuff from time to time. I just think women should try to make an effort to be intelligent, to be themselves, that it’s even more important for women to do this than men because they have more to resist in doing it, and often women who decide to embrace things that are accepted for them in society do so at the expense of everything else. I’m not saying someone like Sasha Grey is in any way a kind of saint, just that I’m glad she’s at least trying to present herself as a more complex and independent person.
Liz – ditto on the “normal life” part. Thanks for the reexamination and clarification! :)
Hmm… I’m going to criticize Sasha Grey for drinking poop, not because she’s a pornstar or a fan of Godard or physically attractive. I think that’s gross. I consider it a turn off. If she were a man and she drank poop, I’d think that was pretty gross, too, but it wouldn’t be as much of an issue because I’m not physically attracted to men. I mean, I can call out a good looking guy by society’s standards if I see one, but I’m not going to throw up a bone for him. At least, I’ve yet to see that man.
I don’t think it’s misogynistic for me to look down on her because I’m not looking down on her because she’s a woman. I’m not even looking down on her because she’s a pornstar! I look down on her because I’m pretty sure she drinks poop. I think that’s pretty gross. Sorry. I’m radical like that.
P.S. I don’t think it should be against the law for fecal freaks to be fecal freaks, I’m just not into it. Maybe 100 year from now it’ll be a different story.
She drinks poop?! And she’s not dead or seriously ill with infections or anything?
Shotzi – I don’t know what this girl has or hasn’t done in porn, but it’s a larger issue than that and it doesn’t work just to pretend it’s a matter of if someone eats shit or not. If she does, god help her. I also don’t take her that seriously even if I think think she’s being genuine, but I do have some sympathy (I mean she’s my age, after all). But I’m not singling you out anyway. I just think there’s almost always an undercurrent of “that stupid slut is just being an attention whore and doesn’t really like those things” in a lot of guy’s posts whenever someone who’s viewed as a sex object tries to “look smart”. Like girls who are viewed as sex objects can’t really be have their own opinions. That’s a dumb idea, but it’s very pervasive. I think people deserve a basic level of respect no matter who they are or what they do with their lives, as long as it isn’t messing up other people’s lives.
Did it ever occur to you that she might like being a porn star and that’s why she does it? I know many cool people in porn and none of them do it because the have to. Nina Hartley is a goddess. There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG WITH BEING A PORN STAR. Useless? It’s the opposite of useless. It helps Men and Women get off. That’s of monumental importance. Sexual health is important! I work in a porn/sex toy shop (which I love doing). Trust me, I deal with very few serial killers and many, many loving couples who enjoy pornography together. Also… Sasha Grey has NEVER drank poop. Where on earth did you hear this tripe? Try watching her in action. She’s a pretty good performer.
Ok Shotzi – And I’m not saying this because you said Bob Crane was a creep (I’m not – I’m a good American boy), you’re saying Sasha Grey is a fecal freak (something I was not aware of from my reading) and a couple months back in a thread about Lou Reed’s Berlin, you called him a fecal freak (to which I asked: whaaaaaaaat? to no reply).
My question is: Is this a subject you follow? Or coincidence? Or ….
And before you say it, NO Bob Crane is (and was) not into poop.
As for Sasha Grey, I was pleasantly surprised by her movie picks! Even if she isn’t scholarly about film, if she’s sincere about her choices, it makes her a more interesting and thought provoking person and that’s always for the better.
Why is it misogynistic to talk about porn, either good or bad?
There is nothing wrong with someone who does porn. If it pays, it pays.
The whole thing reminds me of late Marilyn Chambers, of Behind The Green Door. She had some 15 or 30 minutes of fame too, in the 70ies, was an outspoken, open-minded an intelligent person, was interviewed by mainstream media, starred in one (!) non-porn movie with an auteur-director (Cronenberg’s Rabid), but after that could not make a permanent career as an actress.
Will history repeat itself or will this story end differently?
Would we care so much if this were Ron Jeremy’s list of favourite movies?
I sometimes wonder if some of this fascination is “nerdboy dreamgirl” syndrome. The “judging a girl by whether or not I’d want to go out with her” thing. The line of thinking goes something like this: She’s gorgeous. Awesome! She has fantastic taste in films! I could SO marry her! But she’s a porn star and gets paid for having sex with other guys on screen. Shame on her! (or, perhaps: YES!)
Whether or not this was your line of thinking, anyone who judges her is comparing her to something — a friend, an ideal, yourself. Imagining her as depraved, imagining her as messed up, imagining her as loving being a porn star or misguided or a liar. The truth is, none of us knows her or what her motivations are. What I find interesting is how easy it is to project ourselves and our ideals onto this poor girl.
On the other hand, anyone who enters into the public arena as an actor or celebrity of any kind can’t be too surprised when they become the projection screen for everyone else’s psyches. So I neither pity her, nor admire her. I don’t think taste really defines us. I know plenty of people with fantastic taste who are despicable human beings and plenty of people with rotten taste who are fine ones. I also know plenty of fantastic people with good taste, despicable people with bad taste, and people who latch on to names and references as a way of defining themselves without having any real connection or awareness as to why the thing they’ve chosen is subjectively deserving of their judgement (“hipsterism”). Thus, how can I know what category she fits in when I know nothing about her? Or even if she fits any of these categories at all?
I do think it’s interesting, though, that “fallen” women (Britney, Amy Winehouse, Lindsay Lohan, whataver) exact the most interest from both male and female audiences. The golden girl with heaps of talent and the fatal flaw. Women love to pity her and men love to tut tut or perhaps love to imagine how they’d save her. Except for Pete Doherty, I can’t think of any male equivalents (at least one that anyone really cares all that much about) – and nobody really cares about Pete now that he’s split up with Kate Moss, his female counterpart. Maybe Michael Jackson? But even he doesn’t get as much press attention….
Wildlife, I love your post. It really stimulates me to think, but I hesitate to put down my ideas because I think they might be misunderstood.
She’s one of those faux intellectuals that’s desperate for others to think she’s smart. You should see her vids on youtube where she tells girls how to swallow cum. I doubt she’s even seen all of those films. She’s so full of herself: "Grey claims to have a strong interest in existentialism to which she boasts, “how many 18 year-old porn stars are existentialist?” rolls eyes
someone posted a comment on the rt page that I thought was spot on and hilarious:
I’ve seen some of Sasha’s OTHER films… Any woman who gets anally barebacked by four guys while being called a beep being spit on her, head dunked in toliet bowel, and then forced to eat the cum out of another girl’s *******. There’s nothing smart behind that.
I read these interviews and I see someone who’s reciting what they’ve been told to say by a very smart PR agent who’s trying to turn them into some hip, “new wave” actress. A PR agent looking to cash in them just like the porn directors.
“Suprise, Suprise, the (formerly) 18 year old porn star who blogs about enema play is actually a film aficiondo with a taste for high brow, avant garde cinema…. "Look at how she defies stereotypes. She’s not just some young, fame craving whore…Yeah, yeah, yeah, she might do double Barebak DPs with strangers for money while marketing herself as “barely legal” lolita fantasy…. but she’s also a talented actress inspired by the work of Werner Herzog and can appreciate ironic B movies by the likes of Hershell Gordon Lewis and John Carpenter….See, she has credibility." ….Please, give me a break.
Bob Crane: Good point, I guess. Believe it or not, it is a coincidence. I called Lou Reed a fecal freak because in the book Please Kill Me he allegedly asked a girl to come back to his place and poop on a plate for him to eat it. I guess I haven’t verified that with Lou, but he was running pretty wild back in those days so who knows. And it’s a fairly reliable book to begin with.
I don’t know if Sasha Grey eats poop in a similar manner, but it was brought to my attention that she has allegedly drank enema bag water. I haven’t verified that with Sasha, either. I just enjoy accusing people of eating poop.
Anyway, I like Sasha Grey well enough. I don’t enjoy her porn because it scares me. She seems cool enough, though, otherwise.
“I called Lou Reed a fecal freak because in the book Please Kill Me he allegedly asked a girl to come back to his place and poop on a plate for him to eat it.”
Key word: allegedly. I have some wild shit I’ve heard about Iggy Pop but wouldn’t drop here because none of it is substantiated. I’m not down with bukkake porn (not hating on it, just no interest), so it’s unlikely I’ll ever see Grey in action porn-wise. Just want to say, this thread is crazy.
Rossoneri Ultra
Hopefully, this will start a trend with actresses switching between porn and Hollywood films and vice versa. Come on Jessica Alba and Scarlett Johansson!