Jonze is an incredibly talented director, but he’s only worked without Kaufman in his feature film career once, and that film has yet to be seen (though I’m immensely looking forward to it).
Kaufman, on the other hand, has written numerous brilliant screenplays for numerous filmmakers, as well as write and direct his own feature, which was my favorite film of 2008 by far. So, while both are two of the best artists working in American cinema today, I’d say Kaufman has proven himself to be the “genius” of the two so far.
Gotta agree Brandon Bedaw, I think that was the best film of ‘08. Also, look into his music videos and skate videos (even if your not a skater, I’m not) if you haven’t already.
I agree with everything Brandon said as well. Kaufman is one of the most original voices in cinema today and Synecdoche was my favorite of ’08 as well.
I didn’t care much for “Synochede, N.Y.” (yeah, I know I didn’t spell it correctly), but Kaufmann seems talented enough as a director to make his own concept at least watchable. It would take a director of great skill to pull off a Kaufmann script, and that’s why I believe that Jonze and Gondry are masterminds. Kaufmann’s talent is confirmed in the many great scripts that he’s written – scripts that few would even attempt, let alone successfully complete. Can’t they all be geniuses?
the two work brilliantly together and i believe that they will work just as well on their own.
neither.
However this clip, directed by Spike Jonze, is far better than his features, and way more impressive than anything Charlie Kaufman has ever done.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hk2teXeGiwU
Spike Jonze mostly because I thought Synechdoche New York to be this disaster of a modernist trying to make an ultra-modernist movie and to me, it was offensive and surrealism for toddlers. 2nd worst film of 2008 behind the Visioneers which felt like frat boys trying to make an ultra-modernist movie which is even more offensive.
I agree with Brandon Bedaw. I liked everything that I saw from Kaufman so far. Though, I’m really looking foward to see the new feature from Jonze.
Both are completely different and yet the same. They work extremely well together. It seems as if Spike Jonze is the more whimsical and fanciful one whereas Kaufman is more absurdist and dark. Both Kaufman screenplays had several of the weirder elements jettisoned (Like the Emily Dickinson fight at the end of Being John Malkovich) when Jonze took the helm. The script for Adaptation. read like an early prototype for Synecdoche, and Jonze took that tone and grounded it more in reality. The result was surreal but not overwhelmingly so.
Not a fan of either. I don’t think it is fair to hail Kaufman as highly original, despite the fact that he does come up with original premises, when the post-modernism he employs in his scripts (and is highly regarded for) is most definitely nothing new and has been done better in tons of new wave films.
Who cares if Kaufman is original (which he is)? None of that matters, because he writes damn good movies. Do they utilize the postmodern constructs employed by previous filmmakers? Sure. But, that doesn’t mean that Kaufman isn’t building on those ideas and making them his own.
I think the point everyone on this site is missing is that no goes out to make a bad movie. No intentionally says, “I’m going to make this movie shitty, JUST to piss off 10 or 20 people that will talk about it in an Auteurs’ Forum Topic.” Everybody puts their best foot forward and tries to make the best movie to their abilities and if you attempt to see what they wanted do, you’ll enjoy movies a lot more. The point of this site isn’t to say certain directors aren’t talented because others were better. I adore The Rules of the Game and 400 Blows as much as the next person but that doesn’t stop me from seeing the beauty behind Adaptation or Synecdoche, New York.
Any man who writes a screenplay as jam-packed as Synecdoche, NY, in which (for example) the concept of anima and animus is used as the foundation for the main character’s narrative thread and that’s only the tip of the iceberg deserves praise and adulation, and is unquestionably worthy of being considered an original almost with peer in Hollywood today, regardless of how you may feel about the film itself or his abilities as a director.
Michel Gondry is probably more intelligent than either of them.
this thread was created by Sean Walker Hutton. Be respectful.
Jonze is more of a technical genius, I guess you could say.
Kaufman is like the Kafka or Vonnegut or DeLillo of the 21st century, though. Brilliant neo-post-modern (if that is a phrase, nowadays) work.
Synecdoche, New York has proven that Kaufman’s the genius
Bruce: Michel Gondry is probably more intelligent than either of them.
You hit the nail on the head. I think that Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind is a far better example than either Malkovich or Adaptation, in terms of a good writer really needing his counterpart in the director’s chair. There’s no way Kaufman could ever have dreamed of making that movie without Gondry there to bring it to life.
And Synecdoche, NY was, overall, just really overlong, boring, and bland.
Jay Jay the Jet Plane
Well if we bring in Gondry, then it’s no contest. Michel Gondry has more talent that I think even he realizes.
I hope I’m wrong, but I question Gondry’s future in the world of feature length cinema. Human Nature and Eternal Sunshine are great, and his next two films without the support of Kaufman, Block Party and The Science of Sleep are equally as fantastic. But my god, did he drop the ball in a massive way with Be Kind Rewind, which was entirely set-up to be THE Michel Gondry project, yet failed in almost all regards. This failure made even more obvious by the fact that the movie it should of been, Son of Rambow, came out in the same year and was utterly brilliant.
Now he’s doing Green Hornet with Seth Rogen (and if any actor needs to stop making movies for ten years, it’s him) which interests me in absolutely no way imaginable. I’m a fan, but I can easily see him fading away, or suffocating under the weight of weak source material.
On the flip-side, and this is the part which is purely my opinion, both Kaufman and Jonze made the best films of their careers so far when they separated from each other (Wild Things, Synecdoche), which gives me much more faith in their future solo work and collaborations.
Brandon: You are totally wrong about Be Kind, Rewind. It’s not a terribly consistent movie, in terms of every note hitting exactly where it’s supposed to. But I don’t think that’s really what Gondry had in mind, anyway. You’re looking for classic rock on a jazz album.
Wow why does everyone have to decide who’s better and worse. All 3 are geniuses imo but in different ways. All three have proven themselves in my mind as masters completely on their own (Spike’s WTWTA, Charlie’s SNY, and Michel’s TSOS). Not to say they never slip up which they all have at one point or another (and that’s even arguable btw not really saying it definitively I even love Spike’s rarities) but they are all brilliant in a very different way from the other two. Synecdoche Eternal Adaptation and Wild Things are all in my top 15 favorite movies all time.
As much I blame Jack Black for Be Kind Rewind, Brandon you have a point. I can only hope that Green Hornet does what BKR was supposed to do for his career. (although I’m torn because if it does well, that means 6 more years of Rogen)
I know what I was looking for, Bolo, and I’m pretty sure I know what Gondry was looking for… it’s called Son of Rambow.
There are aspect of the film that I respect; Mos Def’s performance is wonderful, the sequence in which they remake Ghost Busters is great, and the final message of the film is commendable. But as a whole, the movie just didn’t work for me. I actually think, and I felt this way almost immediately after watching the film, that Gondry himself should of played the Jack Black role, and in doing so would make the film much more appealing.
Just watch this sweded version of the trailer Gondry made, and you can see how much more sense that character makes as a charming, kind of bumbling fool who doesn’t know the exact words to theme songs because, well, he’s French. This as opposed to Black’s performance, which is one of vile, irritating, semi-retardedness.
I think somebody has some Jack Black hatred in him.
He can be fine, and I’ve been a Tenacious D fan for years (in a completely sincere, not guilty at all kind of way), but the Jack Black Persona is the biggest hindrance to Jack Black, and he can at times be utterly repellent… I felt Be Kind Rewind was one of those moments.
This also worries me in regards to Green Hornet, since Seth Rogen suffers from the exact same issues as an actor. Him too being more of a persona than a performer who can become extremely grating on the nerves, but has done good work in the past (Freaks & Geeks plays in Heaven on an eternal loop, for example).
Charlie Kaufman a GENIUS?
Do the fanboys EVER tire of useless hyperbole?
>>Wow why does everyone have to decide who’s better and worse.<<
You’re absolutely right.
Nothing to discuss.
Shut down the boards.
Everybody go home. Nothing to see here; move along, move along.
Sean Walker Hutton
Ok, now I have seen Being John Malkovich and Adaptation. I already know they are both very talented from Jonze’s music and skate videos and from Kaufman’s Synecdoche, New York and Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. We all know (we better!) that a film is a collaborative effort, but when it comes to these two films, who is the mastermind? Screenwriters are rarely involved in production and post-production, but Jonze and Kaufman work very close together. I may be biased since I knew Kaufman first. I know this thread will get lots of negative opinions, but hey, it’s better than all these fucking lists.
One more thing, I am aware this is probably not the fairest question of all. This is meant for debate.