I don’t think von Trier is a misogynist per se but I feel he has some deep seated concerns where women are concerned.
My point is the internet is not something that you can just dump something on, it’s not a big truck. It’s a series of tubes. Tubes are made to be streamlined, when they get clogged up with a bunch of that black bile-like goo that you find in drainage pipes, things don’t flow through them as well.
@Ben – what is there to be concerned about? He wouldn’t be here if it weren’t for women.
@Anonymouse – yuck…
Odi needs to see Antichrist!
I’ve been very vocal in my defense of Antichrist amongst great scrutiny here.
I think Lars gets more crap because he is a misanthrope which people tend to find distasteful. For someone who also suffers from depression I can assure you it isn’t hard for me to understand his mindset.
I think a better director is better able to channel those ideas, though. I think Von Trier works on a very shallow understanding of human emotion (which works in certain spots in certain films, but I don’t know if it works throughout).
I don’t think he understands how to express emotions to the best extent either.
@Into – NO WAY (re: seeing Antichrist)
@Ben: He’s a misanthrope, yes, but he’s also self-indulgent to the point of sophistry … the latter is his crime, not the former.
@Ben – the depression thing is an interesting angle. I tend to agree with you there.
In other news I just got Criterion DVDs 8 1/2, House, and Videodrome in the mail! Yay!
And it’s actually sunny in Vancouver! Double yay!
@Deck – the self-indulgence is what comes through for me, and makes me cringe.
I don’t even dislike the Von Trier I’ve seen… it just wasn’t all that impressive. Especially for all the praise it gets… And especially considering something like Huang Weikai’s Disorder gets overlooked despite it being a far, far more complex statement on humanities basic inability to be human towards each other than anything Von Trier even tried to say in Antichrist.
In all fairness, Peripheral, you should see The Idiots.
For me, Von Trier’s only made two good films so far: The Element of Crime and The Idiots. Both worth checking out.
Hou Hsiao-Hsen recommendations?
Odi! Yeah Beaker is my fave too.
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As for the whole Von Trier misogynist thing – I’m not too sure about that. Superficially, I want to say yes he is but I think that throwing around claims like that needs to be followed by a close study and distinction. I guess the argument is whether his apparent ‘deep seated concerns where women are concerned’ is it his personal stance ABOUT women or is it more a concern FOR women (on behalf of women)?
Ben: Flowers of Shanghai is my only one so far, so I’m not sure how it may relate to A City of Sadness, but I would recommend it.
@Mary — love it! He always destroys everything and his mouth is always turned down. Cute little guy!
Von Trier’s women are much more like himself than his men.
^ This is very true.
Not all that big on Element of Crime. It’s actually my least favourite so far… But I do need to see The Idiots before I get to say something serious about him, I agree.
Everything from 1983-1998
My favourite 5:The PuppetmasterThe Boys from FengkueiA Time to Live, a Time to DieA City of SadnessGoodbye, South, Goodbye
But you can’t go wrong with anything from that period. It’s really an incredible level of consistency and perfection.
I have yet to judge von Trier as an overall misogynist filmmaker (nor do I think such sweeping statements are fair because directors change – hopefully anyways), I think some of his films fit this bill and others don’t.
I think Kim Ki duk before 3-Iron had a much more consistently misogynist filmography.
To be fair about the role of the artist etc.- It reminds me of a series of prints I made exploring the nature of misandry (the hatred of men). The visual imagery involved Luchadores in surreal feminizing situations that made them appear weak and incompetent. The idea was to convey a seemingly fantastical image with an insidious undertone that undermined masculinity. As I suspected people were attracted to the bizarre and the brilliant colors and did not analyze the ‘text’ of the print. People loved the prints but when I started to explain the concept behind it they changed their minds and became very uncomfortable. They thought that I possibly l hated men and then by liking my work that they were in agreement with me. This could not be further from the truth but in any case people do not like to think about uncomfortable things.
@Mary – ooooh post images pls. Sounds fascinating!
I think sitcoms are the medium which most often engages in misandry…
Hopefully pictures of the work exist on a hard drive. The prints are at my parent’s house.
Me too, Mary, I’d love to see your work!
Q: If a pilot flies 200 miles due north and then 100 miles due south, what is the farthest s/he can be from his/her point of departure? What is the nearest?
(edit) A: 100 miles nearest, 300 miles farthest (if the aircraft crosses the North Pole). (/edit)
Yay yay — I may actually break my streak of not watching movies for like a month, tonight! Finally (I hope) something to bring to this forum other than silliness and provocation. ;)
I just realized that I purchased a 1L bottle of 14% ach. wine. No wonder it seemed it a bit strong..
I thought you didn’t enjoy drinking, Mouse?
typed whilst downing third glass of JWB