Musycks, Re: “Andrei Rublev or Solaris maybe in my top 30…”
I’m hip. And I can’t get enough of Notorious.
By the way, when I say Vertigo is overwrought, I should also say that I LIKE that quality in a perverse way, but I just can’t put that picture in a top 10. In terms of entertainment and sheer style, “overwrought” and “hysterical” are fine qualities in Leave Her to Heaven and Cat On a Hot Tin Roof as well, but…well, you know where I’m heading with that.
great job Adam Cook.
now, to all of the people wondering why the list turned out the way it did, you have to understand that we used the “Sight and Sound” method of ranking films, which does not weight films based on where you list them, each film that makes a top ten receives 1 vote. This is very significant, as it means that whether you think that Citizen Kane is the #1 movie of all time, or the #10 movie of all time, it counts just the same. So, for instance as where I ranked Citizen Kane as the #8 film, it was given equal weight to my #1 pick, Ran, and my #2 pick Children of Paradise. When film enthusiasts are limited to only 10 choices, many will find it hard to leave such a film as Citizen Kane out of the top ten-and it looks like about 25 or 30% of respondents felt just that way…therefore giving Kane more votes than any other film, and placing it at #1, although I doubt that more than 5 or 10 people here would place it at #1 personally.
The same goes for directors. A director got a vote for every film in which he had that was placed on someone’s list, and it looks like some Godard fan listed 10 Godard films and thats most likely how he made the top ten director’s list. Personally, while I think that the Sight and Sound method for selecting a top 10 movie list is fine, I do think it is seriously flawed when selecting directors, as there are VERY FEW people who would really consider Coppola to be a top 10 director despite his 2 or 3 masterpieces, and this system doesn’t really recognize fimmakers for there total bodies of work.
No ranking system is perfect, although I would prefer a weighted system and perhaps a top 20 or 25 from our voters- and even a separate list for director, and perhaps one day we’ll do that when the results of this great undertaking are no longer so fresh in our minds.
Once again, thanks to Adam Cook for putting in all of the work, as I know how much time it takes to do this kind of thing. Here’s my list for the folks out there here is my list:
films:
1.Ran
2.Children of Paradise
3.Passion of Joan of Arc
4.La Dolce Vita
5 Siberiade
6.2001
7.Ivan the Terrible part 1 and 2
8.Citizen Kane
9.Andrei Rublev
10.The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
never seen Notorious but I take North by Northwest over Vertigo, although I think that the Birds may be his best work-Strangers on a Train ain’t bad either, nor is Rear Window.
But if someone really does not enjoy watching Citizen Kane “personally,” then it shouldn’t be on their top ten. Jason gave a good explanation of why the film is more than just an academic experience for him. But your top ten should be films that live inside you, inspire you, and make you want to live in them. If we were just going for milestones in film history, then the list should include A Trip to the Moon, The Birth of a Nation, and The Jazz Singer. But how ridiculous would that be?
I guess I’m asking, what imaginary panel of experts did people feel the need to impress when making out their choices?
I’m usually pilloried over this, but I have never understood the devotion to VERTIGO.
As I always say, I don’t think it a bad movie, but I don’t think it anywhere near the Top 10, either. PSYCHO and REAR WINDOW get my votes as Hitch’s best, with STRANGERS ON A TRAIN and, yes, THE BIRDS next.
I need to see his 1940s work again, like NOTORIOUS and SPELLBOUND and REBECCA. It’s been a while.
Ha!… we still need to scrath that Hitch it seems?!! I really enjoy Vertigo and it’s a worthy film and all that, I just hate the fact he reveals to us and not to Jimmy that it’s her! I then lose sympathy for him, because I’m in on the secret and panto style I yell at the screen ‘of course it’s her you idiot’!……. there’s no such flaw in Notorious. but any of half a dozen Hitchcock’s are worthy of a podium finish.
I think Stewart’s character does that to make Novak accept herself as his former love, Jimmy knew right from seeing her in the apartment who she was. It’s not a flaw, the flaw in Notorious is Bergman’s usual overacting.
Personally I wrote my list totally based on what films I personally feel are the best, not the films I think others should feel are the best, not what films I think others will think I’m cool for having on my list, but simply as Justin said “films that live inside you, inspire you, and make you want to live in them.” This list should be personal and iif it just so happens that you REALLY love Citizen Kane then it should be on your list, I REALLY love and have been changed by Breathless and The 400 Blows and The Passion of Joan of Arc the three of which are prolly considered conventional choices genuinely touch me and so I DID include them, and I feel justified in this (not that anyone is questioning me).
JP… I just got the umpteenth restored version so I’ll watch it again and see if I get what you see in relation to Jimmy knowing,,, it’s eluded me so far I have to say…..
Here is a list of all films which recieved at least 2 votes, in order from most votes to least.
28 votes each:
Citizen Kane – Orson Welles (1941) USA
26 votes each:
2001 A Space Odyssey – Stanley Kubrick (1968) USA/UK
25 votes each:
8 ½ – Federico Fellini (1963) Italy
15 votes each:
The Rules of the Game – Jean Renoir (1939) France
Seven Samurai – Akira Kurosawa (1954) Japan
14 votes each:
The 400 Blows – Francois Truffaut (1959) France
Vertigo – Alfred Hitchcock (1958) USA/UK
13 votes each:
The Passion of Joan of Arc – Carl Theodre Dreyer (1928) France
12 votes each:
The Godfather – Francis Ford Coppola (1972) USA
Rashomon – Akira Kurosawa (1950) Japan
Stalker – Andrei Tarkovsky (1979) Russia
Taxi Driver- Martin Scorsese (1976) USA
11 votes each:
La Dolce Vita – Federico Fellini (1960) Italy/France
Raging Bull – Martin Scorsese (1980) USA
10 votes each:
Apocalypse Now – Francis Ford Coppola (1979) USA
Casablanca – Michael Curtiz (1942) USA
Dr. Strangelove – Stanley Kubrick (1964) UK
9 votes each:
Bicycle Thieves – Vittorio De Sica (1948) Italy
8 votes each:
Aguirre, the Wrath of God – Werner Herzog (1972) Germany
Breathless – Jean-Luc Godard (1960) France
Playtime – Jacques Tati (1967) France/Italy
The Seventh Seal- Ingmar Bergman (1957) Sweden
The Third Man – Carol Reed (1949) UK
7 votes each:
Andrei Rublev – Andrei Tarkovsky (1966) Russia
Tokyo Story – Yasujiro Ozu (1953) Japan
Wild Strawberries – Ingmar Bergman (1957) Sweden
6 votes each:
Au Hasard Balthazar – Robert Bresson (1966) France/Sweden
Fanny and Alexander – Ingmar Bergman (1982) Sweden/France/Germany
The Godfather Part II – Francis Ford Coppola (1974) USA
In the Mood for Love – Wong Kar-Wai (2000) Hong Kong
Persona – Ingmar Bergman (1966) Sweden
Pierrot Le Fou – Jean-Luc Godard (1965) France/italy
Sansho the Bailiff – Kenji Mizoguchi (1954) Japan
5 votes each:
Barry Lyndon – Stanley Kubrick (1975) UK
Blade Runner – Ridley Scott (1982) USA
Blue Velvet – David Lynch (1986) USA
Chinatown – Roman Polanski (1974) USA
City Lights – Charlie Chaplin (1931) USA
The Conformist – Bernardo Bertolucci (1970) Italy/France/Germany
The Decalogue – Krzysztof Kieslowski (1989) Poland
The Good, The Bad & The Ugly – Sergio Leone (1966) Italy/Spain/Germany
Last Year at Marienbad – Alain Resnais (1961) France
M – Fritz Lang (1931) Germany
The Mirror – Andrei Tarkovsky (1975) Russia
Psycho – Alfred Hitchcock (1960) USA/UK
Pulp Fiction – Quentin Tarantino (1994) USA
The Searchers- John Ford (1956) USA
4 votes each:
Annie Hall – Woody Allen (1977) USA
L’Avventura – Michelangelo Antonioni (1960) Italy/France
The Battle of Algiers – Gillo Pontecorvo (1966) Italy/Algeria
A Clockwork Orange- Stanley Kubrick (1971) UK/USA
Double Life of Veronique – Krzysztof Kieslowski (1991) France/Poland/Norway
Double Indemnity – Billy Wilder (1944) USA
Fitzcarraldo – Werner Herzog (1982) Germany
Grapes of Wrath – John Ford (1940) USA
A Man Escaped – Robert Bresson (1956) France
Mulholland Drive – David Lynch (2001) USA
Rear Window – Alfred Hitchcock (1954) USA/UK
Satantango – Bela Tarr (1994) Hungary/Germany/Switzerland
Singing in the Rain – Stanley Donen, Gene Kelley (1952) USA
Sunrise – F. W. Murnau (1927) USA
Sunset Boulevard – Billy Wilder (1950) USA
The Thin Red Line – Terrence Malick (1998) USA
Three Colours : Blue – Krzysztof Kieslowski (1993) France/Poland/Switzerland
3 votes each:
Children of Paradise – Marcel Carne (1945) France
Cries and Whispers – Ingmar Bergman (1972) Sweden
E.T.- Steven Spielberg (1982) USA
The Gold Rush- Charlie Chaplin (1925) USA
Late Spring – Yasujiro Ozu (1949) Japan
The Man with the Movie Camera – Dziga Vertov (1929) Russia
Manhattan – Woody Allen (1979) USA
My Own Private Idaho – Gus Van Sant (1991) USA
The New World – Terrence Mallick (2005) USA
The Night of the Hunter – Charles Laughton (1955) USA
North by Northwest – Alfred Hitchcock (1959) USA/UK
Notorious – Alfred Hitchcock (1946) USA/UK
Once Upon a Time in the West – Sergio Leone (1968) Italy/USA -
Ordet – Carl Theodor Dreyer (1955) Denmark
The Passenger – Michelangelo Antonioni (1975) Italy
Pather Panchali – Satyajit Ray (1955) India
Schindler’s List – Steven Spielberg (1993) USA
The Shining – Stanley Kubrick (1980) UK/USA
Solaris – Andrei Tarkovsky (1972) Russia
Ugetsu Monogatori – Kenji Mizoguchi (1953) Japan
The Umbrellas of Cherbourg – Jacques Demy (1964) France
Unforgiven – Clint Eastwood (1992) USA
The Wild Bunch – Sam Peckinpah (1969) USA
A Woman Under the Influence – John Cassevetes (1974) USA
Yi Yi – Edward Yang (2000) Taiwan/Japan
2 votes each:
12 Angry Men – Sidney Lumet (1957) USA
Army of Shadows – Jean-Pierre Melville (1969) France/Italy
Au Revoir, Les Enfants – Louis Malle (1987) France
Berlin Alexanderplatz – Rainer Werner Fassbinder (1980) Germany
The Best Years of Our Lives – William Wyler (1946) USA
Blowup – Michelangelo Antonioni (1966) Italy
Celine and Julie Go Boating – Jacques Rivette (1974) France
Chimes at Midnight – Orson Welles (1965) France/Spain/Switzerland/USA
Chungking Express – Wong Kar-Wai (1994) Hong Kong
City of God – Fernando Meirelles (2002) Brazil/France
Contempt – Jean-Luc Godard (1963) France/Italy
The Conversation – Francis Ford Coppola (1974) USA
Elevator to the Gallows – Louis Malle (1958) France
Eraserhead – David Lynch (1977) USA
The Exterminating Angel – Luis Bunuel (1962) Mexico
Fargo – Joel Coen (1996) USA
The Fire Within – Louis Malle (1963) France
Floating Weeds – Yasujiro Ozu (1959) Japan
Grand Illusion – Jean Renoir (1937) France
Great Expectations – David Lean (1946) UK
La Haine – Mathieu Kassovitz (1995) France
Ikiru- Akira Kurosawa (1952) Japan
Inland Empire – David Lynch (2006) USA
La Jetée – Chris Marker (1962) France
The Last Laugh – F.W. Murnau (1924) Germany
Last Tango in Paris – Bernardo Bertolucci (1972) France/Italy
Los Olvidados – Luis Buñuel (1950) Mexico
Maborosi – Hirokazu Kore-eda (1995) Japan
The Magnificent Ambersons – Orson Welles (1942) USA
Memento – Christopher Nolan (2000) USA/UK
Metropolis – Fritz Lang (1927) Germany
My Dinner with Andre – Louis Malle (1981) USA/France
My Life to Live – Jean-Luc Godard (1962) France
Naked – Mike Leigh (1993) UK
Network – Sydney Lumet (1976) USA
Oldboy – Park Chan-Wook (2003) South Korea
On The Waterfront – Elia Zazan (1954) USA
Once Upon a Time in America – Sergio Leone (1984) Italy/USA
One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest – Milos Forman (1975) USA
Pan’s Labyrinth – Guillermo Del Toro (2006) Spain/Mexico/USA
Pickpocket – Robert Bresson (1959) France
Red Desert – Michelangelo Antonioni (1964) Italy/France
The Royal Tenenbaums – Wes Anderson (2001) USA
Rushmore – Wes Anderson (1998) USA
Seven – David Fincher (1995) USA
Shoot The Piano Player – François Truffaut (1960) France
Spirit of the Beehive – Victor Erice (1973) Spain
Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back – Irvin Kershner (1980) USA
Star Wars: A New Hope – George Lucas (1977) USA
Synecdoche, New York – Charlie Kaufman (2008) USA
There Will Be Blood – Paul Thomas Anderson (2007) USA
Three Colours – Krzysztof Kieslowski (1993-1994) France/Poland/Switzerland
Vampyr – Carl Theodor Dreyer (1932) France/Germany
Videodrome – David Cronenberg (1983) Canada
Viridiana – Luis Bunuel (1961) Mexico/Spain
Week End – Jean-Luc Godard (1967) Italy/France
Werckmeister Harmonies – Bela Tarr (2000) Hungary
Wings Of Desire – Wim Wenders (1987) Germany/France
Winter Light – Ingmar Bergman (1962) Sweden
Here is a list of all directors who received at least 2 votes, in order from most votes to least.
49 votes each:
Stanley Kubrick
41 votes each:
Federico Fellini
36 votes each:
Alfred Hitchcock
34 votes each:
Ingmar Bergman
Akira Kurosawa
Orson Welles
30 votes each:
Francis Ford Coppola
28 votes each:
Andrei Tarkovsky
26 votes each:
Martin Scorsese
23 votes each:
Jean-Luc Godard
19 votes each:
Carl Theodre Dreyer
18 votes each:
Francois Truffaut
17 votes each:
Jean Renoir
16 votes each:
Robert Bresson
Werner Herzog
Krzysztof Kieslowski
14 votes each:
David Lynch
13 votes each:
Michelangelo Antonioni
Yasujiro Ozu
11 votes each:
Kenji Mizoguchi
10 votes each:
Charlie Chaplin
Michael Curtiz
John Ford
Sergio Leone
Billy Wilder
9 votes each:
Wong Kar-Wai
Terrence Malick
Vittorio De Sica
8 votes each:
Woody Allen
Louis Malle
F. W. Murnau
Carol Reed
Steven Spielberg
Jacques Tati
7 votes each:
Bernardo Bertolucci
Fritz Lang
Alain Resnais
Bela Tarr
6 votes each:
Luis Bunuel
John Cassevetes
Roman Polanski
5 votes each:
Wes Anderson
Sidney Lumet
Jean-Pierre Melville
Sam Peckinpah
Satyajit Ray
Ridley Scott
Quentin Tarantino
4 votes each:
Stanley Donen
Clint Eastwood
Gene Kelley
David Lean
Gillo Pontecorvo
Michael Powell
Éric Rohmer
Edward Yang-
3 votes each:
Robert Altman
Paul Thomas Anderson
Frank Capra
Marcel Carne
Jean Cocteau
Joel Coen
David Cronenberg
Jacques Demy
Sergei M. Eisenstein
Rainer Werner Fassbinder
Samuel Fuller
Abbas Kiarostami
Charles Laughton
Michael Mann
Hayao Miyazaki
Christopher Nolan
Emeric Pressburger
Jacques Rivette
Gus Van Sant
Preston Sturges
Guillermo Del Toro
Dziga Vertov
Wim Wenders
2 votes each:
Tim Burton
Park Chan-Wook
Henri-Georges Clouzot
Roger Corman
Victor Erice
David Fincher
Milos Forman
William Friedkin
Howard Hawks
Hsiao-hsien Hou
John Huston
Mathieu Kassovitz
Charlie Kaufman
Irvin Kershner
Hirokazu Kore-eda
Mike Leigh
George Lucas
Chris Marker
Fernando Meirelles
Mike Nichols
Pier Paolo Pasolini
Nicolas Roeg
Oliver Stone
Jean Vigo
William Wyler
Elia Zazan
For four of my films I was the only one that voted for them, I’m rather proud of that, I think.
Three of mine!
I honestly thought that most people had never seen The 400 Blows. Most of my friends have never heard of it. (I think I need new ones.)
Other than that… we didn’t learn much. All of these movies are in the Top 50 of any book you can buy. We don’t try very hard, I think.
Also, Martin Scorcese is the most overrated director of all time and Joan of Arc is insurmountably the most boring movie I have ever seen (with Rules of the Game running at a steady second).
its nice to see how closely some of the Bergman films were to the cut.
A very simple question for Adam:
Why did you write down just the TOP 9 films?
Umberto if you check the list, some of the ties were counted in two spots. so I assume the same happened for the 9 spot……so if anything, there was a top 12.
Thanks again, Adam……. definitely a monster of a job. The results are and are not surprising.
More recent films still have some way to go to establish themselves- from the last decade In the Mood for Love and Mulholland Dr out front, as i would have expected (they’ve tended to do well in other polls i’ve seen), followed by The New World and Yi Yi. All the more strange that the excellent Rough Guide to Films (directors, really) left out The New World as an essential Malick film, did have his other 3 features though. John Ford fans may be disappointed- i’m surprised he just missed the top 20, as at They Shoot Pictures, Don’t They? site he rides very high, though that does include lots of older polls as well. Surely Renoir should be above Truffaut? I hope Naruse and Shimizu (Hiroshi) from the classic age of Japanese cinema get more attention in future. Along with the sort of holy trinity of Mizoguchi, Ozu and Kurosawa, they are masters too, and Naruse especially has been getting a lot of credit following recent dvd releases.
Adam -
My hat’s off to you for making this happen. It’s a huge labor and we all appreciate the effort you’ve put in.
GRAND ILLUSION only got two votes?
I haven’t yet added my voice to those saying “Incredibly well done Adam,” and I should.
Incredibly well done Adam. Just a tremendous effort.
Amazingly well done, Adam.
We are watching Stalker for the first time, tonight.
admittedly i just stumbled across this thread and haven’t been on the auteurs much, but i am really surprised that in 2009 there’s still such vast ignorance to women filmmakers. ok, i am risking to sound like a broken record, but seems that not much changed since that record first broke! so, where is denis? where are holland, arnold, longinotto, ramsay, hadzihalilovic, breillat etc etc etc – where are the women critics and the auteuresses? i’m not sure whether to be bored, or whether somebody actually cares to nurture and talk about films from women in the same breath as men? not one female director in your top ten lists? c’mon, if you really know your film, sure you could do better.
Well, there have been plenty of good and very good films by women, but truly outstanding masterpieces may be rarer. Of course this is subjective and may be part of conditioning as to what constitutes a great film, and the idea of more modest “female” subject matter v (self) important grandiose male ambitions. Remember, we’ve each picked our top 10s only. I really liked Innocence by Hadzihalilovic, but i still doubt from what i’ve seen, whether any female director belongs among the elite, say the top 25 anyway. I could do with seeing more Akerman. I picked my favourites, irrespective of reputed greatness, and would be delighted to pick some by women. Alice Guy-Blaché certainly deserves to be better known.
Verena, have you seen the Female Directors thread? Admittedly in its own separate niche, rather than placed at the same heights as the men here
but should a female critic place a female director in the top ten just because she’s a woman? to me, that’s false criticism. thinking with your heart and not your head. and to quote walter sickert…
“a critic can no more afford the luxury of a heart in business hours than can a surgeon.”
This is the first I’ve seen of this and I’m a bit surprised Goodfellas is nowhere on that tally.
Throughout history there have been many more male filmmakers than female, or at least men have had more opportunities to be recognized. So, it stands to reason that more great films from male directors would have been seen by cinephiles. I’m not saying men are better directors, or defending ignorance, just that it was, and still is a male dominated job, it’s unfortunate but true.
I considered putting Beau Travail on my list, and shortly after I submitted I saw L’Intrus, and I think I would put that in a top ten, I must see it again to make that decision, though. I must admit, however, I have seen very little from female directors.
Coppola is not overrated. He has five confirmed masterpieces under his belt.
Musycks
Dr LGlow…. I’m about to Stalker it myself?? Andrei Rublev or Solaris maybe in my top 30…. I scored 3 out of the 10 and would have squeezed out another 5 picks if we’d gone to top 20. and i backed the wrong Hitchcock… I prefer Notorious to Vertigo.