I really don’t mean to derail your thread, but every time I see Nashville praise, I have to point out that Payday is THE quintessential movie about country music. Nashville may be many things, but it has nothing to do with country music.
-Nashville may be many things, but it has nothing to do with country music-
Yup.
I’d agree with that. This didn’t become my favorite film because of my affection for country music (which doesn’t go far beyond Hank Williams, Johnny Cash and Willie Nelson.) I think Altman was using country music as a conduit to larger issues, but not as any kind of realistic portrait.
This didn’t become my favorite film because of my affection for country music (which doesn’t go far beyond Hank Williams, Johnny Cash and Willie Nelson.)
That’s a good start, but make sure you check into Waylon Jennings (greatest country music artist of all time), the Bad Livers, and Hank III. Maybe we need a Mubi country music thread. ;)
I thought most of the songs in NASHVILLE were irritating in the extreme. And I think they were so calculated.
NASHVILLE was basically a meanspirited satire, intended to point out just how ignorant, backwards and misguided were a particular set of gentiles in middle America.
Many in that city were stung by the movie…. and shed no tears on Altman’s demise.
I’m with David on this one. Altman seems to be saying “We’re better than these people” throughout the entire film.
I always find Altman’s films deeply humanist with it’s subjects, I don’t see any condescension in his films. Now I love Nashville but I don’t think Nashville is the masterpiece everyone else does, I happen to find it a bit too loose in it’s approach, A Wedding, Mash, Prairie Home Companion, Shortcuts etc I find better films.
dp
Also the dvd seems to only be out in America which is a pain in the ass, loads of Altman’s great are really awkward to get your hands on – I had to torrent this, Brewster McCloud, Secret Honor and California Split, which I hate doing.
NASHVILLE is about country music the way that HAMLET is about the royal court of Denmark.
Sorry, folks, but I don’t have a problem with Altman pointing out the ignorance, backwardness and misguidedness of a particular set of gentiles in middle America. Ignorance etc. are major problems in this whole country, and it can’t be pointed out often enough.
I’m not seeing any of this Altman looking down at the people of Nashville business. Its not like he’s Todd Solondz. Most of the characters are flawed (wouldn’t have much drama if they weren’t), but sympathetic. The least likeable characters tend to be the one’s coming in from out of town like Opal from the BBC, John Triplette, LA Joan, Tom and, of course Kenny.
I tend to agree with the accusations of condescension in this and other Altman films. I have never understood the thing about the music not being real country. I’m not saying the charge isn’t accurate, just that i don’t understand. What exactly is off about the music. Keep in mind I have no knowledge about chords or 4/4 song structures or anything. When it comes to this music all i hear is the use of twang and lyrics about quiet desperation in America. What exactly is it that separates Waylon Jennings from Haven Hamilton?
Again, i get that people don’t like the songs, what I’m confused about is why the songs are not country. Please elaborate.
The music is Nashville is really closer to the NY/CA singer/songwriter folk idiom of the period. Jennings style of music was influenced by Hank Williams and a number of the other classic country musicians (as well as Johnny Cash and Buddy Holly, with who he toured shortly before Holly’s death).
Of course, there were (and are) folk musicians in Nashville, and rock musicians such as Dylan and Neil Young were recording in Nashville during the period, but you wouldn’t call the songs in Nashville country. It’s not that they’re bad songs necessarily, but I just don’t think Altman had any interest in trying to capture or use in his film the style most associated with the city.
I’m Easy (as well as It Don’t Worry Me) are exceptions to the film’s general musical style, as Tom is specifically identified as part of a folk trio. The rest of the soundtrack is much more country. Barbara Jean is meant to recall Loretta Lynn. It is interesting that Outlaw Country is not really represented, but it was relatively new in 1975.
Yeah, Barbara Jean is intended to suggest country music in general and Loretta Lynn in particular. But, in real life, the actress who plays her, Ronee Blakley was a folk rocker. It’s hard to confuse here with the real thing:
compare this from Michael Apted’s Coal Miner’s Daughter :
which a least gets the phrasing right.
I often see Nashville described as a ‘Portrait of America’. If that’s the case it’s a pretty unflattering one. All the characters seem self-centered to exploitative to just plain hostile. I really like what they do with the overlapping narratives and such, but the content itself doesn’t speak to me much.
-NASHVILLE was basically a meanspirited satire, intended to point out just how ignorant, backwards and misguided were a particular set of gentiles in middle America-
I’m not sure I disagree with that, but on the other hand I’m nost sure that LA is portrayed in any kinder a light in The Long Goodbye, for example.
Okay, thanks Matt. Still, don’t folk, country and blues overlap in some ways? Also, the younger characters in the film lean towards the folk side but is Haven’s or Tommy Brown’s music really folk? Doesn’t the film deal somewhat with the fact that Carradine’s group is not traditional?
Nashville seems to look at the country music industry as a microcosm of American confusion after Watergate and the Vietnam War. As such, it probably isn’t really that much about Nashville at the time, which I don’t think was as confused about where it was going as it seems in this movie. However, I’m not that knowledgeable about Nashville country music ,so I have no more than a rough idea about who is supposed to be who. I doubt that Altman was very interested in exposing hypocrisy in Music City USA, anyway.
The movie centers around Grand Ole Opry performers and Music Row songwriters and bars. Waylon Jennings and Willie Nelson didn’t have much to do with this scene at the time, as they had gone back to Texas years before. Hank Williams wasn’t a Nashville musician, and it seems that his style hasn’t been very influential there, only significantly influencing a few musicians like John Anderson and Merle Haggard. Johnny Cash seems like one of a kind.
Everyone sees Ronee Blakley as playing Loretta Lynn. Timothy Brown must be playing Charley Pride, but he doesn’t play much of a role in the story. Henry Gibson clearly seems to be playing Roy Acuff. Keith Carradine may be playing Bob Dylan, but could be someone similar or a composite of several country or folk rockers. Karen Black is most likely playing Tammy Wynette, but I think there are one or two other possibilities, and she could be playing a composite character. All of these suppositions are based on one or two common biographical details between the characters and real Nashville stars, and I don’t mean to suggest that Altman and Joan Tewkesbury were merely recycling Nashville gossip. I assume that they were modeling their characters after real people to give the flavor of the city and the scene.
I would guess that the last paragraph lost a lot of people. My mother was a country music fan. I’m not a big fan of 1960s-1970s Nashville country, although I like some of it and think it is far better than what Nashville considers to be country music today.
The movie pays just as much attention to fringe characters and hopefuls. I wasn’t there, so I can’t judge how accurate it is concerning the people who haven’t made it, but it seems truthful to me, if you take into account that it is a satire and that it’s really more about America than it is about country music.
It’s not surprising that the Nashville establishment didn’t like Nashville. Someone who is being satirized notices the negative side of the portrayal, not the positive aspects, and I’m sure that people recognized themselves as targets and that their friends were also outraged. We know that William Randolph Hearst was enraged by Citizen Kane, although I think that on the whole that was a positive portrayal, at least on the surface. I think that a few small details were enough to infuriate him (probably just one-“Rosebud.” My guess is that Hearst heard about this line before the movie was released and didn’t need to hear anything else).
Nashville is hard on just about all of the male characters, without the possible exception of Ned Beatty’s husband, who is perhaps too caught up in his work and not able to do all he should for his wife and children in difficult circumstances. Most of the female characters come off better, like Ronee Blakley’s tragic Barbara Jean, Lily Tomlin’s neglected housewife, Gwen Welles’ sad victim who will do anything to try to succeed, Barbara Harris’ Albuquerque, who steps up and brings the crowd together when it seems that everything has fallen apart, and even Geraldine Chaplin’s ridiculous BBC reporter, who becomes instantly sympathetic as one of the many conquests of Keith Carradine’s stud.
“I’m Easy” is a great song, and the scene where Carradine sings it and it seems that practically every woman in the bar thinks that it is about her perfectly illustrates the dishonesty and superficiality of his character. (Thanks for the clip-I just watched it and would love to believe that it was about Lily Tomlin’s character, because it would be too heartbreaking if it wasn’t, but if it wasn’t about Shelley Duvall’s or Geraldine Chaplin’s characters it would be almost as bad. I’m still convinced that it isn’t about any of them, and that he’s just in love with himself). The out of town characters do seem to generally come off worse than the Nashville establishment characters. “Two Hundred Years” is also a great song because it can be taken as totally serious or totally satiric. An amazing thing about it is that songs like Lee Greenwood’s “God Bless the USA” are taken completely seriously, but seem more like parodies than Henry Gibson’s song (I just listened to “God Bless the USA” while I typed this, and almost want to give Greenwood a break because he sounds sincere, but I think my first impression was correct). I’ve listened to the soundtrack LP many times, and I don’t see many of the songs as being typical country music because I’m aware of the satiric uses that they were put to, but I still like many of them.
I don’t believe that Altman was trying to attack Nashville with this movie. I think that he was trying to show us where the US was at this point in time. I think that this is probably his best movie.
Thanks again for the “I’m Easy” clip, Matt. Carradine perfectly captures the distinction between the casual folk style and the more theatrical country style. Shelley Duvall and Geraldine Chaplin have long been among my favorite actors, mostly because of their roles in Altman’s films, of course. I haven’t been a Lily Tomlin fan, although I recognized that her performance in this movie was great, but I am astonished that she could be so moving in this scene while barely moving or changing expression.
Loved the Loretta Lynn clip, too.
Thanks again for the “I’m Easy” clip, Matt. Carradine perfectly captures the distinction between the casual folk style and the more theatrical country style. Shelley Duvall and Geraldine Chaplin have long been among my favorite actors, mostly because of their roles in Altman’s films, of course. I haven’t been a Lily Tomlin fan, although I recognized that her performance in this movie was great, but I am astonished that she could be so moving in this scene while barely moving or changing expression.
Loved the Loretta Lynn clip, too.
-don’t folk, country and blues overlap in some ways?-
They do, but they each still have distinct characteristics.
-Also, the younger characters in the film lean towards the folk side but is Haven’s or Tommy Brown’s music really folk-
Well, as Ororama said, they have some established points of reference to country artists (Henry Gibson in a Nudie suit), but the performances are still a long way off from a fan of traditonal country would consider country.
-Doesn’t the film deal somewhat with the fact that Carradine’s group is not traditional?-
Yeah, clearly he’s referencing the cliche of the pop folk/folk rock trio (Peter, Paul & Mary, the Kingston Trio, Crosby, Stills and Nash, etc.). I just don’t think Altman was interested in engaging either the specific culture of the city or country music as a style in anything more than the most superficial way (I don’t mean this as criticism, it just wasn’t what he was trying to do with the film).
Bump
I love love love NASHVILLE, but I’ve gotta agree with Jerry Johnson’s comment that PAYDAY is the best film ever about country music — and one of the best about the music biz, period. Beats the hell out of CRAZY HEART.
Brad S.
There are many who cite Robert Altman’s Nashville as the pinnacle of New Hollywood’s rise in the ‘70’s. It’s ironic that the very same summer would see the release of Jaws, which would eventually derail the movement by creating the template we still live with today.
There are so many angles from which to approach Nashville that it can be a bit overwhelming. There’s the innovation of having 24 characters and no leads, thereby rendering the entire community as the protagonist. There’s Altman’s improvisational style and use of overlapping dialogue. We can discuss the parallels brought up between celebrity and politics or Altman’s symbolic use of color (the ever-present red, white & blue and the ominous yellow.) There’s the relation of the film to the ‘70’s and, of course, what it says about America.
I hope there will be discussion of these and other themes I may have missed, but I’d like to get the ball rolling by going through the music, song by song. Many of the songs are written by the actors who sing them and most are thematically connect to the film itself. SPOILERS AHEAD!
Two Hundred Years – That Nashville is about the state of the nation is made clear right off the bat with this patriotic to the point of parody hymn sung by Haven Hamilton. Just a few years after Watergate and with the troops leaving Viet Nam, such sentiment is set up for mockery, reinforced by Haven’s comic arrogance. Haven, however, is nothing but sincere as he sings of America’s history and Altman does not dismiss such old-fashioned ideas as this character will be redeemed.
Bluebird – Tommy Brown is not a character we get to know well in Nashville. He’s the only African-American star in this very white country music culture. Perhaps Bluebird is meant to fill in some biography as it’s about the unlikely climb from poor and humble beginnings.
For The Sake Of The Children – More Haven Hamilton schmaltz, but the lyrics are a fierce defense of family at all costs.
Keep A-Going – While the kids are singing “It Don’t Worry Me” all over town, Haven’s generational anthem is this. Optimistic, conservative, naïve and seductive, it shows an understanding of the status quo that Altman seeks to change.
Memphis/Rolling Stone – These songs are written by Karen Black who play’s Connie White, Barbara Jean’s chief competitor. Not sure they’re meant to advance any particular themes.
I’m Easy – Folk singer Tom’s chief trait is his womanizing and this is the song he sing’s to the one woman he loves, although his other conquests are sure it’s about them. It represents Tom vis-à-vis his feelings towards Lily Tomlin’s character, but could also be from the point of view of Mary or any of the other women he’s seduced.
Tapedeck in His Tractor – While the rest of the cast are actors playing country singers, Ronee Blakley is an actual country singer. This casting was savvy on Altman’s part as Barbara Jean is THE Nashville superstar so Blakley’s songs being the best in the film is appropriate. Tapedeck is a high energy romp about falling in love with a modern cowboy.
Dues – Barbara Jean is about to have a breakdown and she has been shown to be fragile and vulnerable throughout. This beautiful heartbreaking song drives home that vulnerability more than any dialogue could.
One, I Love You – An excuse for a Haven / Barbara Jean duet. Can’t find any further significance.
My Idaho Home – Whereas Haven’s tributes to county and family come off as corny, this final number from Barbara Jean is anything but. It’s a poignant recollection of true old fashioned Americana. Family means something in this song. This song about roots also connects to the presidential candidate’s slogan, “New Roots for a Nation.” The flag is prominently featured on screen, connecting personal family with the national family. This is the dream that could have been. Can this dream survive an assassin’s bullet?
It Don’t Worry Me – Who will replace Barbara Jean? As it turns out, it’s Barbara Harris’ Winifred an unknown with dreams of stardom who, by pure chance, is pushed center stage. Was Altman looking into our American Idol future? She sings “It Don’t Worry Me,” the big hit of the day. It’s basically a call to apathy. By the mid-seventies, counter-culture ideals had given way to the Me Generation. The shit may be hitting the fan, but it won’t matter if you’re taking enough drugs.