One way to look at it is that her social strata folded in around her such that she could be headless.
Yeah, in I Stand Alone he had people he could count on and get some money from but the strata of society really couldn’t do anything for him and he certainly had to keep his ‘head’ on.
Yeah, in I Stand Alone he had people he could count on and get some money from…
Did you mean to say that “…he had people he could NOT count on…?” If I so I agree with this, and I think it’s an interesting reading and comparison of both films. I think the social strata folding has different implications and meanings, too. In Headless, the assistance and support is really a bad thing—the rallying around her is despicable, covering up a wrong-doing—instead of helping her to own up to her actions. (Well, in some ways, you could say that they do these things out of love, but there’s no remorse or guilt.) In I Stand Alone, his social strata are the only safety-net he has—the only thing preventing him from utter collapse and ruin. Here the support (lending money, etc.) would have been a good thing.
I don’t know how you feel about the film, Robert, but a part of me feels it’s a little long, that it could have taken less time to get its meaning across.
In ISA he had a place to go where the landlord played along, an older person who could give him money and someone pointed him to a job.
Not that it was quantifiably comparable, but he had something.
In ISA he had a place to go where the landlord played along, an older person who could give him money and someone pointed him to a job.
Robert, forgive me, but I think you’re memory is faulty. The Butcher pays the landlord, and when he’s late, the landlord starts hassling him. The older friend refused or couldn’t give him. People do point him to other jobs—but it’s more a brushing off—i.e., I don’t have any work, but why don’t you try so-and-so. In the last interview, the Butcher feels insulted—so much so that he plans to shoot the guy. These are all dead-ends; the Butcher has no where to go and most of the film is about this slow decent into desperation and despair.
Yeah, the landlord hassles him, but he doesn’t evict him – that’s what I meant by ‘plays along’. the room was one he had stayed in before.
The older guy doesn’t have any money to give him, that’s why I said ‘could’.
The point is that his social safety net—made up of his social strata—has some big pukas in them—i.e., they don’t really provide any kind of help at all (opposite of what Vero gets from her social strata).
Btw, do you basically agree with my reading of THW? (I haven’t really thought about it much, and it’s the first thing that came to mind.)
Yeah. The structure is interesting; it is unintentional, she can’t remember and she is a care-giver.
.
Dentist (I think.) But I’m not sure if she really can’t remember (literally has amnesia) or she’s just so stunned and afraid. Once she tells her husband about her fears, she seems to remember everything and everyone. What does her stunned state/temporary amnesia signify? (See, I’m wondering if this connects to Argentine history/politics, sort of like the way Cache taps into French history-politics regarding colonialism and immigration.)
Yeah I think that is it – the transgressions are forgotten or covered up.
Do you think the length of the film was appropriate? I feel like Martel could have achieved what she wanted in a much shorter film (say, a little over an hour).
There is no middle class in Headless Woman. The middle class mentality is not one that employs maids and cooks and nannies. It’s my least-favorite Martel because it’s her most abstract and metaphorical work. I want her to be the new Renoir (La cienega), not the new Antonioni.
@ Jazz
I’m showing 87 Min – that isn’t very long.
@ JJ
I’m not sure she could say it less abstractly without it being preachy; hence the style.
I’m sure your right, Robert, and I’m not criticizing her style at all. The way she makes the heroine’s head float during the long-take hit and run scene…Spielberg could only dream of such technical proficiency. But La cienega is one of my three favorite films of the decade and I wanted that pleasure re-enforced.
Did you like Holy GirL too?
@Jerry
There is no middle class in Headless Woman. The middle class mentality is not one that employs maids and cooks and nannies.
Yeah, you’re right. Is this mainly the upper class then? I think bourgeoisie seems to fit better for some reason (but I hate typing that word out all the time, as I can never remember to spell it correctly. Hopefully, I did.:)
It’s my least-favorite Martel because it’s her most abstract and metaphorical work. I want her to be the new Renoir (La cienega), not the new Antonioni.
I like that last comparison, although I don’t think THW is as abstract as some of Antonioni’s films. What are some of the metaphors and abstractions you have in mind?
I’m sure your right, Robert, and I’m not criticizing her style at all. The way she makes the heroine’s head float during the long-take hit and run scene
Wait. I don’t remember that. You mean, after she stops the car and gathers herself?
@Robert
Yeah, it’s not long, but somehow I feel like it could have been even shorter.
The Holy Girl is my favorite.
I liked it very much, more than Headless Woman but less than La cienega. For me, it’s her Hitchcock, the way she constructs the sin at the beginning of the film and leaves us in suspenseful anticipation at how a psycho-sexual thriller will resolve itself.
Just watched the film and still wrapping my head around it. I knew that Jazz started this thread from its title (but no score, Jazz?). It seems like an adaptation of a short story. The Antonioni comparison is appropriate. It manages to be very literary without being very wordy in terms of dialogue but manages to visually capture what is usually interior reflections. I think this is a huge accomplishment for a film. Appropriate for the film’s very fragmented approach to narrative, I really loved how Martel framed each shot. She manages to block out/obstruct most of the “action” in what’s occurring in each scene and then subtly reveal it.
“There is no middle class in Headless Woman. The middle class mentality is not one that employs maids and cooks and nannies. "
This is a strange statement. I thought you knew Latin America, Jerry? Its very common for the middle class in Latin America to have maids and nannies. Almost all of my South American family – all middle class – have hired help (some even live-in). This is common practice throughout the region. Labor is inexpensive.
The Headless Woman was my first Martel and I made the mistake of seeing it in the theater without any preparation for what I was getting myself into. I nearly fell asleep. I’ve subsequently seen La Cienega and The Holy Girl, both of which I liked a lot (La Cienega being my favorite), so I need to revisit The Headless Woman.
“For me, it’s her Hitchcock”
Hitchcock with more than a dash of Amadori
Hitchcock with more than a dash of Amadori
Have you (or anybody) actually seen this? An Argentinian horror film from the 1940s sounds fascinating.
I see lots here who’s favorite Martel is La Cienaga, and I couldn’t agree more.
…with that being said I think I’ll go ahead and re-watch The Headless Woman right now.
No, I haven’t. I’ve found La Violetera on-line and La Mentirosa is on YouTube. Aside from those, Amadori has proved pretty elusive for me. It does sound like an intriguing film though, doesn’t it?
@Ari
_(but no score, Jazz?). _
I think I wasn’t certain at the time I wrote this. My score would probably be somewhere between 65-70.
Did you agree with my hypothesis of the film’s meaning: While I watched the film I had one hypothesis of the film—namely, that it was about the guilt and cover-up of Argentine bourgeoisie towards the conditions of lower classes (and perhaps the past sins committed against indigenous peoples).?
Langston said, _I see lots here who’s favorite Martel is La Cienaga, and I couldn’t agree more.
FWIW, I like The Holy Girl the most.
Yes, I think your reading of the film is on point. Martel’s films seem to revolve around the pathologies of the Argentine upper middle class.
“FWIW, I like The Holy Girl the most.”
Yes, I agree although this film definitely lingers so maybe it will displace it as #1.
Yes, I think your reading of the film is on point. Martel’s films seem to revolve around the pathologies of the Argentine upper middle class.
But even at a little under 90 minutes, the film felt a little long—unless there were many interesting facets of guilt or other problems that the film explored (and I just missed).
Yes, I agree although this film definitely lingers so maybe it will displace it as #1.
The Holy Girl lingered a bit more for me. There are moments that are odd, yet compelling.
Jazzaloha
Like Martel’s other two feature length films, I really liked the look of the film. (She seems to use a lot of natural light, and I really love that look.) While I watched the film I had one hypothesis of the film—namely, that it was about the guilt and cover-up of Argentine bourgeoisie towards the conditions of lower classes (and perhaps the past sins committed against indigenous peoples). Do others agree with this reading or is there something more I missed?
(Early in the film I thought this might be a one-joke movie a la Being There or Weekend at Bernie’s—in this case involving a woman who completely loses her memory, while she gets by without anyone taking notice.)
(On another note, maybe my recent viewing of Noe’s I Stand Alone has influenced my reading of this film—Noe’s depicts the situation from the lower class perspective, while Martel treats the issue from the middle and upper classes.)