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Tootie and other child roles.

Nathan M.

about 1 year ago

This is in response to “The Jazz Challenge” to start a thread on a movie you’ve just seen.

I just took another look at one of my favorite movies, Meet Me in St. Louis.

Now, I’d be happy for people to talk about the movie generally, but I’m particularly curious to know what people think of Margaret O’Brien, who played Tootie. I noticed on the page for the film that a few users took issue with her, stating, “The obnoxious child acting by Margaret O’Brien almost ruined this for me”, and “I think Margaret O’Brien must be the most annoying child in the history of the world ever.” The opposite way to look at O’Brien’s performance is that she steals every scene that she’s in, which is sort of incredible when you note that she’s often right there with Judy Garland in her prime.

I admit that her performance comes dangerously close to being cloying, but it works pleasantly for me. How about you? Also, what child performances do you really like?

Nathan M.

about 1 year ago

And, yes, I know there are other threads about child actors.

Doctor Lemongl​ow

about 1 year ago

I think the manner in which children were portrayed in many films of the 1940s can be off-putting to
modern viewers now; I guess filmmakers had less to lose from lapsing into sentimentality
during that time.
In some of those B-pictures that starred Margaret O’Brien, this is especially true.

But in MMISL, she portrays a child who is an incorrigible ham—a diminutive drama queen who
is also an ace manipulator. I don’t think you could find a chld actor better equipped to convey that,
even if (and we can’t know this) O’Brien was not required to do more than merely behave, as opposed to act.

Put another way, I wonder if it’s fair to accuse O’Brien of being an annoying or cloying actress just because
Tootie is all of those things (or perceived to be).

I still think the entire Halloween night sequence is an inspired bit of yarn spinning and mood creation, capturing the melodrama that invariably emerges from the busy mind of a precocious child.

ororama

about 1 year ago

It may be helpful to consider O’Brien’s performance in light of the world and the movie industry of the time. Shirley Temple was one of the biggest stars of the 1930s, but had outgrown her stardom. MGM was likely hoping that they had the next Shirley Temple in O’Brien, but times had changed. She was popular, but not on the level that Temple had been.

I liked O’Brien in You, John Jones!, The Canterville Ghost and Little Women, and don’t really remember her in Jane Eyre and Madame Curie. Of course, those were movies for adults, and that was a difference between the 1930s and the 1940s. There wasn’t the same market for the precocious, plucky kids that had been so popular in movies during the Depression. Meet Me in St. Louis clearly seems to be the high point of her career.

After seeing her on TCM with other child stars of her era and Robert Osborne, it seems that she is pretty well adjusted to her short period of fame and its end.

Jazzalo​ha

about 1 year ago

I only vaguely remember O’Brien, but the thing I remember about this film is the way it seemed to create the perfect American family—not so much the relationships and characters, but the mood and vibe one gets from the film. Equally important to the characters is the setting—which seems to be the perfect representation of American main street. Indeed, it seems like the main street that Disneyland tries to recreate at it’s theme parks (or at least the Anaheim one). In any event, there is something very warm and comforting about this film, which I really like.

Btw, while the film is a musical, it feels like an unusual musical to me in that there aren’t big dance numbers and the music seems to serve the mood of the film more than anything else. I need to see this again; maybe next Christmas.

ruby stevens

about 1 year ago

people complain she almost ruined the film?? i am shocked. she was wonderful. the halloween sequence is one of the highlights! also i always thought that was her in philadelphia story too but i just looked it up and it was virginia weidler. hilarious performance tho. i guess she was somewhat older than margaret who was only 7 in meet me in st louis

greg x

about 1 year ago

Jazz, that’s one of the things about the film, it appears to be a sort of perfect American family, so when Tootie destroys the snow family in front of the house, it’s shocking because she is, in effect, attacking the image of perfection that the family carries on its facade. While this is seemingly all smoothed away by the end of the movie, the attack still holds its force and suggests the underlying tensions inherent in all families, just as the Halloween episode points out some of the tensions that can exist within a community. The surface of a musical is often basically placid and any stress can be resolved, the tension in the film comes out through the subtext and it often can be understood as continuing to exist in some form even after the immediate issues have been cleared up.

“Meet Me In St. Louis” struck me as very lightweight and not especially memorable, although it’s not a bad film. I’d no glaring problem with any of the performances in the movie.

As far as great child performances go, I don’t believe one can really go past Natalie Portman in “The Professional”. The sequence where she plays the “Guess Who?” game with Leon is a highlight and really shows Miss Portman’s flamboyancy and lack of inhibition. Everything she does in the film is a result of most fine acting, particularly for such a young thespian.

(No prizes for guessing who in the above, although add a bowler hat and she could easily be Liza with a Z!)

Alas, she went and did “Black Swan”—I’m now waiting for her to do another film (NOT some bed-hopping bonkfest with Ashton Kutcher!) to wash the aftertaste of her in “B.S.” from my mind (or maybe I ought to just see “The Professional” again).

Jazzalo​ha

about 1 year ago

Thanks for the insights, Greg. I’ll definitely keep them in mind when I see the film again.

@Mark

I liked Portman in Leon, but I also love the actor who played the little girl in The White Balloon.

Nathan M.

about 1 year ago

Re: The perfect American family.

I agree with Greg on the snow family scene. I would also add that Alonso, the dad, is almost totally disconnected from family matters, as is their older brother, Lon. They exists on the edges of the family life. Dad works and provides And yet dad controls major aspects of their lives. Though I don’t think Minnelli is trying to point to this in a specific way, the film does underline some of the absurdities of patriarchal households.

Tootie as the lynchpin of the narrative interests me because of her obsession with death and the horrific. She’s also a con-artists and prankster of sorts and a hooligan, which stands against the wholesomeness seen in the rest of the family.

Given that it was released in 1944, as WWII was still going on in Europe, Meet Me in St. Louis is fascinating for its ability to uphold the nuclear family, American progress, and the strength of the heartland. The darkness of the film, those tensions that Greg mentioned, are below the surface and they are fundamentally harmless. It’s a film of desire for the past and for simpler troubles.

VOLUPTE NOIR

about 1 year ago

On the subject of Margaret O’Brien, it is salutary to see Our Vines Have Tender Grapes, a gentle piece of forties Americana, to understand why many (including me) love her. This is a quiet sleeper film with many affecting moments. Her parents in this are Edward G. Robinson and Agnes Moorehead! And, as I have said elsewhere on this site, the best scene in Meet Me in St. Louis, almost unbearable in its poignance, is the one where Judy Garland sings Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas. Watch O’Brien’s face in that scene and the way she runs outside and destroys the snowmen in a rage of sadness afterwards.

Nathan M.

about 1 year ago

Our Vines Have Tender Grapes? I’ll keep my eye out for that one, Volupte. Thanks.

VOLUPTE NOIR

about 1 year ago

By the way, another great child role is Jodelle Ferland’s astounding performance in Terry Gilliam’s Tideland.