I don’t understand. What’s the trouble?
I’m more troubled by capitalist influence.
^ Amen
So, Olivenstein, are you troubled by possibly being exposed to viewpoints other than your own? Or do you feel Criterion should not be p-resenting viewpoints you don’t necessarily adhere to?
I certainly don’t subscribe to Nazism, but I have to acknowledge that TRIUMPH OF THE WILL and OLYMPIAD are classics of cinema.
>>I’m more troubled by capitalist influence.<<
Particularlywhen it causes a global financial system meltdown …
Given many of the major nations in our recent history have been either fascist or communist, this shouldn’t be surprising. Im also not sure what the point of discussion here is to be honest.
Is this a concern over film itself or simply political leanings? I think we have to keep in mind that even though we may view these films with great passion, nowhere does it say we have to agree with its makers in terms of ideologies of themes.
Hell look at Birth of a Nation, I imagine no one will argue against its significance, but at the same time have incredible trouble connecting to it on an ideological standpoint.
Oh and Communism ftw.
most film/art enthusiasts aren’t quite what you would call conservative. if you havent learned that by this point in time, you will with more experience circulating around the arts. so asking a question of this type on the forum is definitely going to get you a lot of blank stares.
I think it’s sort of unfair to assume that Olivenstein is a conservative. You don’t really have to be even remotley right-wing to find the Soviet Union that Eisenstein made his work in repugnant.
That being said, I sorta agree with everyone else here – you don’t have to agree with a person’s political inclinations to enjoy their work. In fact most good artists will make sure that the political message in their work doesn’t overpower the artistic qualities.
Add to that that most of the examples cited – and most of the films in the Criterion collection – are old enough that whatever political views they espouse now belong more to history than the current political discourse, and you have another distancing factor. I’m not saying either fascism or communism are entirely dead, of course, but they exist in radically different contexts than those of “Triumph Of The Will” or “Battleship Potemkin”. I suspect the discussion would be less clear-cut if Criterion featured films espousing the views of current extremists, on either side.
I think my ability to separate these things with time is a help.
I wasn’t born when many of these films came out (save some Klimov but I’m sure that may be seen as subversive, too).
The flipside could be some of the more despairing views (in my opinion) of Criterion films like Chasing Amy.
Haha Alexander, do you mean politically or just aesthetically? Been a long time since I saw “Chasing Amy”, but I remember the story being rather dodgy from a gender studies viewpoint (apart from just being a plain bad movie, of course.)
“Hell look at Birth of a Nation, I imagine no one will argue against its significance…”
On this site people will argue anything. I’ve seen people argue that exact point, but you’re message is clear.
I mean from a Genders Studies perspective I guess… I THINK!
Anyway, far more offensive than BoaN to me.
I’m reading the question he’s asking as, how can we like Criterion (and Kino Video) so much if they some how are “supporting” and releasing movies that were financially (and in Riefenstahl’s case vehemently backed politically) under fascist or communist regimes.
I think the question is fairly asked in Riefenstahl’s case. But I’m responding because of the broad stroke I think the question paints on Eisenstein’s, and could be painted on other directors today as well. Who’s to say you shouldn’t say the same thing about movies released from Communist China today, specifically with someone like Zhang Yimou who worked so closely with the government on the Olympic festivities last year?
And what about Spanish movies like Bienvenido Mr. Marshall, about the Marshall Plan in Spain, or The Spirit of The Beehive, both released during Franco’s reign?
Yes, I think he’s been slayed enough by everyone in this thread.
I do not think there is a problem with Criterion supporting movies that were financially under fascist or communist regimes. Firstly, in the facse of Riefenstahl and Eisenstein, the regimes they live in have disbanded and if the money goes to their estate, there seems to be little wrong since I believe they should be reaping the rewards of the films they made that are worthy of the Criterion collection.
As for someone like Zhang Yimou, I do not think we should stop watching his films just because we may be funding a government we do not like. In general (The Rock), most Criterion releases have a thoughtful amount of depth or features exemplary filmmaking, so unless one is really zealously opposed to the Chinese government, why deprive cinephiles of what they want to see? That would be like removing all Chinese paintings from the walls of Modern Art Museums for heavily political reasons.
Finally, even if Criterion stops releasing these releases, if the films are popular enough, they will receive releases from other companies. Supply and demand.
Also, some Criterion consumers might support fascism or communism (or socialism), so Criterion should not be making a political decision that will only prove to be insensitive and detrimental for the company.
“Nimier killed himself and his girlfriend in his Aston Martin.”’
How James Bond of him.
Yes, and that was a year before “Goldfinger” (in the books, Bond drives a Bentley though), Nimier had said that his Aston was his vice. He died on the autoroute de l’ouest outside of Paris before “The Fire Within” came out. There’s an interview of Louis Malle and Francoise Sagan on ina.fr speaking about it plus Drieu’s original novel before he turned fascist.
Oh, and it was Francois Chalais (not Challe as I incorrectly wrote above) who started in Vichy newspaper “Je Suis Partout”. Also writing for JSP were Lucien Rebatet (as film commentator) and Robert Brasillach who wrote a monumental Histoire du Cinema with his brother in law M. Bardeche that had been translated by the Museum of Modern Art in 1935. In the early 1940s second edition, there’s quite a bit of nasty anti-Jewish comments on the pages dealing with the distribution side of film.
On the Communist side of film review is of course Georges Sadoul (who went to same private French Catholic school as my grandfather and his brothers—Grandpere has red leatherbound editions of his Cinema history books).
I realized I was being a bit of a devils advocate when initially asking the question. A more honest question would be:
Curious of Soviet or Fascist films?
olivenstein
Bear with me, as I’m new to this forum; but a question that has been in the back of my head is the number of Criterion films (and don’t get me wrong—a very estimed company in my book) that were backed by fascist or communist entities.
Two examples of course are Leni Reifenstahl (sp?) and Sergei Eisenstein right off the bat.
Even Louis Malle did a screenplay with Roger Nimier and later both had adapted Le feu follet by Pierre Drieu La Rochelle before Nimier killed himself and his girlfriend in his Aston Martin. Malle had started on Cousteau’s first film and Cousteau’s brother was the infamous P.A.C. of Je Suis Partout, a newspaper that Francis Challe had his beginnings with….